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Re: There are two kinds of VSS users... davidorcin15-Apr-04 12:21 davidorcin 15-Apr-04 12:21  That could happen with any source control if you don't know how to use it. Used to hate source control... jmw13-Apr-04 16:52 jmw 13-Apr-04 16:52  But that was when I used VSS. Since trying out CVS and a few others, and sticking with Perforce, I can honestly say that source control is critical when it comes to developing medium or large projects.... wouldn't be able to live without it. VSS was just a hindrance most of the time. VSS Douglas Troy13-Apr-04 7:18 Douglas Troy 13-Apr-04 7:18  We had issues with VSS for a good long bit, before I finally got our IT group to implement a batch file that runs Analyze on the DB everynight; plus we now clean up the temp folder as well (nightly). Since doing this, we've had little issues with it. Actually, our biggest problem to date was caused by IT, when they failed to properly reconfig the back-up, and then someone 'accidently' restored over 3 days worth of development work. But that wasn't a VSS issue, it was human error. That's my two cents. D. Re: VSS NormDroid13-Apr-04 22:03 NormDroid 13-Apr-04 22:03  I agree, have the time is not Visual Source Safes fault, its the bloody humans who use it. I've actually had very few problems, VSS is simple to use integrate will with V.S. 2003, its a no brainer if you have to resort to the command line. Re: VSS Mark Focas14-Apr-04 6:59 Mark Focas 14-Apr-04 6:59  I don't like VSS, It seems to have few redeeming features, and I really hate the way the GUI isn't run on a separate thread. I do a contract where I may not wotk on the project for a few months, when I come back, I haave to do a 'Get latest version', it takes forever, and doesn't allow me to cance if it is taking too long. If the connection fails, I have to start all over again. Being in a minority of one, doesn't make you insane George Orwell However, in my case it does Re: VSS joegood15-Apr-04 7:45 joegood 15-Apr-04 7:45  Mark Focas wrote: I really hate the way the GUI isn't run on a separate thread I agree, it can bog down during just about any operations. Mark Focas wrote: it takes forever, and doesn't allow me to cancel if it is taking too long Cancel button at the bottom left of the screen has always worked for me. It doesn't always respond instantly, but it does respond within a few seconds. ClearCase MattyT12-Apr-04 23:11 MattyT 12-Apr-04 23:11  I use ClearCase and I love it. Gotta admit the relationship started sourly - there's a steep learning curve but now I'm comfortable with it I hate going back to CVS (and I will never use VSS again). On a largish project (>30 odd developers) you need powerful tool and ClearCase fits the bill nicely for us (300+ developers). Perforce looks great too for large projects though I'm yet to experience it with more than one developer. Subversion would be my choice for smaller projects. Just some rambling... Cheers, Matt Re: ClearCase Navin13-Apr-04 2:32 Navin 13-Apr-04 2:32  I find it interesting that ClearCase is supposedly an industry standard but it is ranking so low here. One of the other areas of this company uses ClearCase, and the reaction to it has been, at best, mixed. Sometimes I feel like I'm a USB printer in a parallel universe. i really crack myself up some days... Shog913-Apr-04 8:56 Shog9 13-Apr-04 8:56  Navin wrote: I find it interesting that ClearCase is supposedly an industry standard but it is ranking so low here. Perhaps it is, um, not up to the, heh, quality standard set by other Rational products... The bees will find their honey; The sweetest every time... Re: i really crack myself up some days... Nemanja Trifunovic13-Apr-04 9:14 Nemanja Trifunovic 13-Apr-04 9:14  Re: i really crack myself up some days... MattyT13-Apr-04 14:26 MattyT 13-Apr-04 14:26  But to defend the quality - we've never lost any information that we've stored in ClearCase - it's been remarkably reliable for us. Cheers, Matt Re: i really crack myself up some days... Rob Caldecott13-Apr-04 22:43 Rob Caldecott 13-Apr-04 22:43  Tell me about it - the version of PurifyNT I have crashes on startup if I am using Windows XP style - I have to switch to classic mode to make it run. The Rob Blog Re: ClearCase MattyT13-Apr-04 14:23 MattyT 13-Apr-04 14:23  Yeah, I expected a bigger showing from the PerForce/ClearCase crowd... But then I imagine that CodeProjects biggest 'market' is Visual Studio users, particularly application developers...perhaps that explains the skewed result? Cheers, Matt Re: ClearCase Shog914-Apr-04 4:43 Shog9 14-Apr-04 4:43  MattyT wrote: But then I imagine that CodeProjects biggest 'market' is Visual Studio users, particularly application developers...perhaps that explains the skewed result? Er, and who were you expecting? The bees will find their honey; The sweetest every time... Re: ClearCase Jim Crafton14-Apr-04 9:27 Jim Crafton 14-Apr-04 9:27  Cause we all know how much the *nix market loves clearcase (or any other vcs, i.e. bitkeeper) ! * * This is a snide jab at the *endless* flamewars that crop up on the linu kernel mailing list, where the gpl folks rag on and on and on and on and on... about the inherent evils of bitkeeper and it's odious license (which basically says, if you use the free version of bit keeper, you agree not to use it on projects that make a competing product to bit keeper). ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Re: ClearCase MattyT14-Apr-04 16:50 MattyT 14-Apr-04 16:50  It was what I was expecting - I was just pointing out that because Perforce or ClearCase may be industry standards it doesn't mean that a survey on CodeProject may accurately reveal that... Cheers, Matt Re: ClearCase Nemanja Trifunovic13-Apr-04 8:34 Nemanja Trifunovic 13-Apr-04 8:34  MattyT wrote: I use ClearCase and I love it. Interesting. We were using CC for about a year, and pretty much everybody hated it. We even made an office party when we swiched back to VSS Re: ClearCase MattyT13-Apr-04 14:19 MattyT 13-Apr-04 14:19  Now that's interesting! Many people here don't have my affinity for ClearCase but there'd be a revolution if we tried to use VSS... Actually I'm not sure VSS could do what we need - we have four primary sites around the world and require multiple developers working on the same code at the same time...would VSS cope? I've only used it in a two man team but it seemed very simple. I can understand why people don't like ClearCase though - it's a big, hairy system and requires considerable management. However, it's very flexible and powerful and, after using it, other systems just seem very limiting. Cheers, Matt Re: ClearCase Jörgen Sigvardsson13-Apr-04 20:28 Jörgen Sigvardsson 13-Apr-04 20:28  Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: We even made an office party when we swiched back to VSS Man, you guys really are geeks! -- Booohoo! VS.NET Integrated Paul Watson12-Apr-04 22:12 Paul Watson 12-Apr-04 22:12  We use VSS because it integrates with the IDEs that we have used over the years. I know myself and I know most of the guys I work with; ask us to use some command-line-console or extra-IDE app and it won't happen. Saying that I do see problems with VSS and would appreciate any recommendations for a source system that integrates with VS.NET 2003. ta regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Christopher Duncan quoted: "...that would require my explaining Einstein's Fear of Relatives" Crikey! ain't life grand? Einstein says... Re: VS.NET Integrated Michael P Butler13-Apr-04 0:54 Michael P Butler 13-Apr-04 0:54  Paul Watson wrote: Saying that I do see problems with VSS and would appreciate any recommendations for a source system that integrates with VS.NET 2003. I'm currently evaulating SourceGear vault[^] I haven't tried it's VS.NET integration yet, but it does have it. I don't tend to use the VSS integration with .NET either as my development procedures require me to know which files I'll be changing before I start coding. Switching to the source control app to check files in and out, forces me to think things through first. Michael But you know when the truth is told, That you can get what you want or you can just get old, Your're going to kick off before you even get halfway through. When will you realise... Vienna waits for you? - "The Stranger," Billy Joel Re: VS.NET Integrated Ian Darling13-Apr-04 2:01 Ian Darling 13-Apr-04 2:01  Michael P Butler wrote: I'm currently evaulating SourceGear vault[^] I'll second Vault. I'm currently using it with a C# Compact Framework project on VS.NET 2003, and I've used it with ASP.NET projects and even VB6 without problems - it integrated into all of them well. Plus it has a reasonably good diff tool too. Ian Darling "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell Re: VS.NET Integrated Paul Watson13-Apr-04 2:36 Paul Watson 13-Apr-04 2:36  Thanks Ian, I will look into it. Good luck on that competition entry regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Christopher Duncan quoted: "...that would require my explaining Einstein's Fear of Relatives" Crikey! ain't life grand? Einstein says... Re: VS.NET Integrated Ian Darling13-Apr-04 7:33 Ian Darling 13-Apr-04 7:33  Paul Watson wrote: Good luck on that competition entry Sadly, it isn't a competition entry but actual work (my job is mostly mobile and web development). And I already have an iPAQ I did mull over the notion of writing a simple version of Rez, but alas I'm too busy at the moment. Ian Darling "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell Integration is overrated Navin13-Apr-04 2:31 Navin 13-Apr-04 2:31  I rarely find myself checking in and out so many files that Visual Studio integration makes that much of a difference. I'd rather have to think about what files I'm touching rather than just going off and doing it. Also, integration with the IDE buys you nothing for automatic builds, and projects that don't need the IDE (plain text files, binaries, scripts, etc.) Sometimes I feel like I'm a USB printer in a parallel universe.

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