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i really crack myself up some days... Shog913-Apr-04 8:56 Shog9 13-Apr-04 8:56  Navin wrote: I find it interesting that ClearCase is supposedly an industry standard but it is ranking so low here. Perhaps it is, um, not up to the, heh, quality standard set by other Rational products... The bees will find their honey; The sweetest every time... Re: i really crack myself up some days... Nemanja Trifunovic13-Apr-04 9:14 Nemanja Trifunovic 13-Apr-04 9:14  Re: i really crack myself up some days... MattyT13-Apr-04 14:26 MattyT 13-Apr-04 14:26  But to defend the quality - we've never lost any information that we've stored in ClearCase - it's been remarkably reliable for us. Cheers, Matt Re: i really crack myself up some days... Rob Caldecott13-Apr-04 22:43 Rob Caldecott 13-Apr-04 22:43  Tell me about it - the version of PurifyNT I have crashes on startup if I am using Windows XP style - I have to switch to classic mode to make it run. The Rob Blog Re: ClearCase MattyT13-Apr-04 14:23 MattyT 13-Apr-04 14:23  Yeah, I expected a bigger showing from the PerForce/ClearCase crowd... But then I imagine that CodeProjects biggest 'market' is Visual Studio users, particularly application developers...perhaps that explains the skewed result? Cheers, Matt Re: ClearCase Shog914-Apr-04 4:43 Shog9 14-Apr-04 4:43  MattyT wrote: But then I imagine that CodeProjects biggest 'market' is Visual Studio users, particularly application developers...perhaps that explains the skewed result? Er, and who were you expecting? The bees will find their honey; The sweetest every time... Re: ClearCase Jim Crafton14-Apr-04 9:27 Jim Crafton 14-Apr-04 9:27  Cause we all know how much the *nix market loves clearcase (or any other vcs, i.e. bitkeeper) ! * * This is a snide jab at the *endless* flamewars that crop up on the linu kernel mailing list, where the gpl folks rag on and on and on and on and on... about the inherent evils of bitkeeper and it's odious license (which basically says, if you use the free version of bit keeper, you agree not to use it on projects that make a competing product to bit keeper). ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Re: ClearCase MattyT14-Apr-04 16:50 MattyT 14-Apr-04 16:50  It was what I was expecting - I was just pointing out that because Perforce or ClearCase may be industry standards it doesn't mean that a survey on CodeProject may accurately reveal that... Cheers, Matt Re: ClearCase Nemanja Trifunovic13-Apr-04 8:34 Nemanja Trifunovic 13-Apr-04 8:34  MattyT wrote: I use ClearCase and I love it. Interesting. We were using CC for about a year, and pretty much everybody hated it. We even made an office party when we swiched back to VSS Re: ClearCase MattyT13-Apr-04 14:19 MattyT 13-Apr-04 14:19  Now that's interesting! Many people here don't have my affinity for ClearCase but there'd be a revolution if we tried to use VSS... Actually I'm not sure VSS could do what we need - we have four primary sites around the world and require multiple developers working on the same code at the same time...would VSS cope? I've only used it in a two man team but it seemed very simple. I can understand why people don't like ClearCase though - it's a big, hairy system and requires considerable management. However, it's very flexible and powerful and, after using it, other systems just seem very limiting. Cheers, Matt Re: ClearCase Jörgen Sigvardsson13-Apr-04 20:28 Jörgen Sigvardsson 13-Apr-04 20:28  Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: We even made an office party when we swiched back to VSS Man, you guys really are geeks! -- Booohoo! VS.NET Integrated Paul Watson12-Apr-04 22:12 Paul Watson 12-Apr-04 22:12  We use VSS because it integrates with the IDEs that we have used over the years. I know myself and I know most of the guys I work with; ask us to use some command-line-console or extra-IDE app and it won't happen. Saying that I do see problems with VSS and would appreciate any recommendations for a source system that integrates with VS.NET 2003. ta regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Christopher Duncan quoted: "...that would require my explaining Einstein's Fear of Relatives" Crikey! ain't life grand? Einstein says... Re: VS.NET Integrated Michael P Butler13-Apr-04 0:54 Michael P Butler 13-Apr-04 0:54  Paul Watson wrote: Saying that I do see problems with VSS and would appreciate any recommendations for a source system that integrates with VS.NET 2003. I'm currently evaulating SourceGear vault[^] I haven't tried it's VS.NET integration yet, but it does have it. I don't tend to use the VSS integration with .NET either as my development procedures require me to know which files I'll be changing before I start coding. Switching to the source control app to check files in and out, forces me to think things through first. Michael But you know when the truth is told, That you can get what you want or you can just get old, Your're going to kick off before you even get halfway through. When will you realise... Vienna waits for you? - "The Stranger," Billy Joel Re: VS.NET Integrated Ian Darling13-Apr-04 2:01 Ian Darling 13-Apr-04 2:01  Michael P Butler wrote: I'm currently evaulating SourceGear vault[^] I'll second Vault. I'm currently using it with a C# Compact Framework project on VS.NET 2003, and I've used it with ASP.NET projects and even VB6 without problems - it integrated into all of them well. Plus it has a reasonably good diff tool too. Ian Darling "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell Re: VS.NET Integrated Paul Watson13-Apr-04 2:36 Paul Watson 13-Apr-04 2:36  Thanks Ian, I will look into it. Good luck on that competition entry regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Christopher Duncan quoted: "...that would require my explaining Einstein's Fear of Relatives" Crikey! ain't life grand? Einstein says... Re: VS.NET Integrated Ian Darling13-Apr-04 7:33 Ian Darling 13-Apr-04 7:33  Paul Watson wrote: Good luck on that competition entry Sadly, it isn't a competition entry but actual work (my job is mostly mobile and web development). And I already have an iPAQ I did mull over the notion of writing a simple version of Rez, but alas I'm too busy at the moment. Ian Darling "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell Integration is overrated Navin13-Apr-04 2:31 Navin 13-Apr-04 2:31  I rarely find myself checking in and out so many files that Visual Studio integration makes that much of a difference. I'd rather have to think about what files I'm touching rather than just going off and doing it. Also, integration with the IDE buys you nothing for automatic builds, and projects that don't need the IDE (plain text files, binaries, scripts, etc.) Sometimes I feel like I'm a USB printer in a parallel universe. Re: Integration is overrated Paul Watson13-Apr-04 2:34 Paul Watson 13-Apr-04 2:34  Fair enough, your needs are different. I need integration with VS.NET or I don't use a source system. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Christopher Duncan quoted: "...that would require my explaining Einstein's Fear of Relatives" Crikey! ain't life grand? Einstein says... Re: Integration is overrated Sarvesvara (BVKS) Dasa14-Apr-04 18:33 Sarvesvara (BVKS) Dasa 14-Apr-04 18:33  What 'source control' system u use then? There is nothing new under the sun, But there are lots of old things we don't know. - Ambrose Bierce Re: Integration is overrated Paul Watson14-Apr-04 21:17 Paul Watson 14-Apr-04 21:17  Visual Source Safe. I want to change though as the team grows. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Christopher Duncan quoted: "...that would require my explaining Einstein's Fear of Relatives" Crikey! ain't life grand? Einstein says... Re: Integration is overrated Rob Caldecott13-Apr-04 3:30 Rob Caldecott 13-Apr-04 3:30  I agree. I use WinCVS and it caters for all my needs. Integration with Visual Studio just doesn't feature on my radar. The Rob Blog Re: VS.NET Integrated Hugo Hallman14-Apr-04 23:34 Hugo Hallman 14-Apr-04 23:34  Vault is great. The only complaint I have about vault and it's integration is it's stupid requirement to use the mouse. There is no short-cut to get rid of the comment query dialogs when checking out, which is extremelly annoying. Otherwise it's simply great. Bitkeeper Anonymous12-Apr-04 20:29 Anonymous 12-Apr-04 20:29  I'm suprised no one uses Bitkeeper. From what I heard about it it is less complicated to use than things like Dimensions, or Clearcase, and has better features than CVS. Drop VSS Anonymous12-Apr-04 18:38 Anonymous 12-Apr-04 18:38  It hasn't been updated in ages. Microsoft is improving their source control support with other products such as Perforce. Only God and Bill Gates knows when Microsoft is going to stop supporting VSS. None > CVS ??? Brad Sokol12-Apr-04 10:12 Brad Sokol 12-Apr-04 10:12  As of 16:19 EDT on 4/12, more people use no version control than use CVS. I'm honestly surprised. Even when I'm the sole author of the code - test tools, utilities etc. - I still use some sort of source control. Having used it regularly on all multi-developer projects (i.e. more than one person) I can appreciate and make use of the benefits a SCC system offers even for my own projects. I'm surprised so many people don't see that benefit. Brad

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