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Christian Graus wrote: If you look under the hype, they are zealots ...
PETA?
If you call them zealots then what word do use to describe the organized and not so organized animal rights groups that are really out there?
Christian Graus wrote: Did you know they take animals for adoption and immediately kill them?
Probably have to see more about what you specifically mean by that. But given that they are not in fact zealots in my view I would suspect that although they do have a unrealistic view of animal husbandry they do in fact, or at least most of them, recognize that sometimes animals need to be euthanized.
One must of course recognize that that any animal rescue operation either must have a maximum limit or must euthanize animals. Naturally of course there are zealots, again in my view, that think that there is some other magical solution (sometimes while ignoring the inhuman conditions that result when taking an unlimited number of animals into a limited space.)
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OK, here are the specifics:
1 - my old pen friend joined PETA. She defriended me on facebook because I kept explaining how all her links to stories about how cruel all animal farming is, were flat out lies.
2 - PETA runs animal adoption centres that euthanize the animal in the back of the truck they use to pick it up. This has come out because some people have donated their animal and changed their mind and could not get it back.
3 - PETA was started by someone who cleaned labs where animal experiments took place. They ruined the scientists they worked for, by staging photos where THEY abused the animals, who were otherwise well treated, although I accept that there's moral questions over the fact that experiments were being done at all. PETA was started by someone deliberately torturing animals and taking photos.
They are zealots because they think the end justifies the means, and that becomes an excuse for behaviour that is at odds with their claims. They are zealots because they deliberately tell lies that only weak minded people who have never left a city or seen a farm, could possibly believe. Their business is outrage, it pays them well, and they generate it any way they can. I don't doubt that most of the members, and probably even the founders at first, had great ideals, but they fall short of them.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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Christian Graus wrote: She defriended me on facebook
That is a grievous wound, Christian, and we know (how well we know) how exquisitely sensitive you are to every wound, every annoyance, and how terribly the Goddess Nemesis toys with you, continually mucking up everything in your life from airplane reservations to the use of programmers' tools.
I worry the scar (on top of so many other scars) may not have healed, even though I entertain the idea that, as so often, the Goddesses toy with mortals who have special gifts, special potential ... as if they can see future hubris in its larval form, and wish to "nip it in the bud."
I believe a journey to Thailand and a ceremony of exorcism here in Chiang Mai by a local Mor Phii (sorcerer who can neutralize negative supernatural influence) could be very helpful to you. I know such a sorcerer, who channels, in trance, a 30,000 year-giant, in Thai, called a "Yak," in ancient Hellenic times, a "Titan," in ancient Vedic times, a "Guna."
You can see him "in action" as Yak here: [^].
Is it possible for you to travel here under an assumed name to throw Nemesis off-track ?
with concern, your older (but never wiser) brother, Bill
“There are obvious things, and there are many obvious things no one tried, because no one needed to try them.” Sergey Alexandrovich Kryukov, January 1, 2014
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ROTFL - yes, very funny. I was disappointed, but really my point is not that I miss the friend, but that she gave me, through a few months of discussion, a window in to the fantasy world of the average PETA devotee, and how divorced their views are from reality.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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Yes, it is, perhaps, inevitable, that from a single experience, particularly if that experience is coupled with emotional involvement, or passion, the mind moves to distill an "average."
And, who is to say that an attar, of even a few molecules, extracted from a single blossom, is not the very essence of the rose, no matter what our nose knows ?
Not I.
“There are obvious things, and there are many obvious things no one tried, because no one needed to try them.” Sergey Alexandrovich Kryukov, January 1, 2014
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*grin* you're quite poetic. I did do some additional reading, that's how I know about the pet death vans. I also spoke to many of her friends and observed their interaction. I also read all the propaganda that she posted, which came from PETA.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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Christian Graus wrote: 1 - my old pen friend joined PETA.
Whether your friend is a zealot or not has nothing to do with the general membership of the organization.
Christian Graus wrote: 2 - PETA runs animal adoption centres that euthanize the ...
It doesn't matter how you phrase what you claim they are doing - I would still like to see something more than just your views on this specific issue.
Christian Graus wrote: 3 - PETA was started by someone who cleaned labs where animal experiments took place...
Which is irrelevant. That is somewhat like claiming that the US holds slaves now because many of the founders of the US did.
Christian Graus wrote: They are zealots because...
Most of what you cited has nothing to do with what a zealot is. So apparently you definition is different than mine. Other than that most of your claims apply in the same way to a vast number of US originated political organizations. Marketing, which is basically all PETA does these days, doesn't equate to zealotry. And there are in fact other organizations such as the Animal Liberation Front which are in fact 'zealots' as based on the standard definition of that word.
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jschell wrote: Whether your friend is a zealot or not has nothing to do with the general membership of the organization.
Probably. Like the Catholic church, it probably has a core who mean it, and a lot of people who just are vaguely interested.
jschell wrote: It doesn't matter how you phrase what you claim they are doing - I would still like to see something more than just your views on this specific issue.
Google broken where you live ?
jschell wrote: Which is irrelevant.
Really ? So the guiding ethos of the creators of the organisation is animal torture and lies, but that's irrelevant ?
jschell wrote: Marketing, which is basically all PETA does these days, doesn't equate to zealotry.
Marketing which mostly exploits women, yes. Which is another reason to object to them.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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Christian Graus wrote: it probably has a core who mean it, and a lot of people who just are vaguely interested.
Not sure what you mean. But restating what I have said...my impression is that the people who actually run PETA for the most part run it exactly like any other mainstream political organization which is to say the activities that they engage in are standard marketing activities.
Christian Graus wrote: Google broken where you live ?
So you don't.
Christian Graus wrote: So the guiding ethos of the creators of the organisation is animal torture and lies, but that's irrelevant ?
The current behavior of PETA is as I stated above.
Christian Graus wrote: Marketing which mostly exploits women, yes
Marketing is marketing. Same tactics for selling cars and politicians and everything else. Attempts to restrict marketing for 'ethical' reasons ends up doing nothing more than creating a niche company without any reach.
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jschell wrote: my impression is that the people who actually run PETA for the most part run it exactly like any other mainstream political organization which is to say the activities that they engage in are standard marketing activities.
So you're saying they do nothing for animals at all, they just market the idea of doing something ?
jschell wrote: So you don't.
Google is not broken where I live. I've read quite a bit, that's where the things I said, came from.
jschell wrote: The current behavior of PETA is as I stated above.
So a group that used to torture and kill animals 'for the greater good' now does nothing for animals at all, and just engages in marketing. That could be. But, I'm more inclined to suspect they do what they always did, but hide it better. Would you support the KKK if it just became a marketing group, who solely presented their views in the media ?
jschell wrote: Attempts to restrict marketing for 'ethical' reasons ends up doing nothing more than creating a niche company without any reach.
The difference here is that they get women who are NOT models, and get them naked on the news. The difference is that these girls may find that their actions bite them down the track, and they've not understood the implications, nor have they made money to act as a balance to the risks they are taking.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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Christian Graus wrote: So you're saying they do nothing for animals at all, they just market the idea of doing something ?
Yes that is my impression of what the organization currently does.
Christian Graus wrote: But, I'm more inclined to suspect they do what they always did, but hide it better
Presumably at area 51.
I am more "inclined" to suspect that they have distanced themselves from all of that and actively discourage it. Which is why other animal rights organizations exist. And why those are critical of PETA.
Christian Graus wrote: <layer>The difference here is that they get women who are NOT models, and get them naked on the news. The difference is that these girls may find that their actions bite them down the track, and they've not understood the implications, nor have they made money to act as a balance to the risks they are taking
You are over simplifying it.
For starters most protests of this nature are done in such a way that they only 'naked' in such a way that it is consistent with the local culture. They do not expose anything that would get them arrested. In the US that means they are not topless nor bottomless (legally.)
There might be non-sanctioned events that go further but for the most part the protests are very benign. The evidence for this is that, in the vast majority of cases, no arrests are made. Compare that to any other political actions that have street protests.
As for the "risks" I am not sure what you mean. Young people who engage in political activism risk all sorts of things. For that matter young people engage in a broad spectrum of risky behavior regardless. And PETA, versus other more radical endeavors are unlikely to harm them professionally.
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BillWoodruff wrote: but I applaud their good work in reducing the unnecessary cruelty to animals in medical, and cosmetic, research.
Keeping in mind of course that that is not all that they are attempting to stop.
Not even sure if that is what most of their money is spent on these days.
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Wearing lettuce might be a precaution against looking dumb; the last PETA protesters I saw were holding "Fur is Murder" signs while wearing leather items (such as boots and jackets).
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jesarg wrote: signs while wearing leather items
And how exactly did you determine that those items were in fact leather? Versus just looking like leather?
And for that matter how did you know that they were members of PETA?
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jschell wrote: how did you know that they were members of
Perhaps ... I want to emphasize that I don't know for sure ... they used the same technique [1] I use: which is to deduce that anyone I suspect doesn't agree with me, or whose appearance suggests they do not share my life-style, or values: is a member of some very bad, even sinister, organization, or is some kind of dangerous deviant ... towards whom I have no obligation to perceive them as a fellow human being, feel empathy for, or attempt to discern the details of their humanity, and understand their thoughts.
But, as I said, that's just a wild guess; such mentation may well reflect the writer's temperament in the context of aging, of spending more than 900 moons on Earth in this corporeal form 
[1] Even though I speak in jest, if one cares to study the research into human perception, and intuition, by such scholars as Daniel Kahnemann (Nobel Prize), and others, in books like "Heuristics and Biases: The Psychology of Intuitive Judgment," and "Thinking Fast and Slow," a strong case emerges for the flawed nature of basic human social perceptions.
“There are obvious things, and there are many obvious things no one tried, because no one needed to try them.” Sergey Alexandrovich Kryukov, January 1, 2014
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Did any of the signs spell "murder," as "moider" ? If so, they might all have been from Brooklyn, or the Bronx, where "moider," used as noun, and verb, in slang (regional patois, if you wish), is used frequently.
Can we rule out the hypothesis they were all from that area, and all had allergies to fur ? Or, that they could have been hired to perform as agitators by an allergist who had lost their medical license for malpractice and was trying to undermine the lucrative practices of their former colleagues ?
“There are obvious things, and there are many obvious things no one tried, because no one needed to try them.” Sergey Alexandrovich Kryukov, January 1, 2014
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I'm constantly after small, annoying tools to do things like breakdown a bitmask into components, or HTML Encode some text, or test some regular expressions.
We have a lot - a lot - of really smart guys and girls and I was wondering if any of you would be interested in posting tools as articles. The tools would allow inline javascript but would have to be self contained. The article itself would be short on talk and big on action, though a thorough explanation is certainly welcome to be shown under the main tool.
Peer review of an Online Tools section would be very, very tight, and we'd have to put in some automatic checks for things like accessing cookies or calling remote services, but on the whole it should be fairly straightforward.
Any takers?
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excellent idea! it'd be nice to be able to pick from a palette of small tools usable directly on the site.
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There should be an online tool for creating them...
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If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein
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So these would all work within the site, thus all being javascript ? That sounds awesome, I'd be up for that.
HTML encoding is already built in, isn't it ?
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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whatdya paying?
bryce
MCAD
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Respect and admiration.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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are you out of your mind?
have you not seen the people on this site?
bryce
MCAD
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