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you shouldn't say so strong words... of course, you believe it if you're saying it, but it may be because you're just very familiar with VS6.
i do love VS6, i do use it often still (see, my VisualCalc article is still made on VS6), but VS2003 worthes to be used, even for simple C++ projects.
VS2005 worthes it too, but i don't have the cash yetn so...
about only the IDE, VS2kx has improved many useful functionnalities, especially on screen space use...
TOXCCT >>> GEII power
[toxcct][VisualCalc]
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Grant Chan wrote: 2003 or 2005's ide is not as good as 6's, i feel
I used to feel that way too. But now swapping down to VC6 after using VS2003 makes me feel like I'm going back to the dark ages. I have one final application suite in VC6 now and luckily I don't have to do much work on it. If I had the time to do the job properly I'd convert it to VS 2003 or even VS2005.
Michael
CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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I think it depends on what you are doing, and what you're personally comfortable with in an IDE.
As someone who writes add-in products for every version of Visual Studio from 5.0 up to 2005, I find VS 5.0 and 6.0 a real pain because the IDE only has very limited customisation - you can't define tool windows or new output window panes, for example (actually it's worse than that, you can't even clear the output window in VS 5.0/6.0!). By contrast, VS2002 onwards have an extremely comprehensive extensibility model which allows a high degree of customisation. If you use the Visual Studio SDK (formerly VSIP) you can even integrate new languages! 
Unless you're writing extensibility products or tools, you won't see those limitations in VS 5.0/6.0 - but they are certainly real.
Personally, I find VS 6.0 OK (ish), although the STL support is cruddy (how many warnings on level 4?), ATL3 is like a straighjacket after you've used ATL7, the compiler doesn't support standard for scope rules and the IDE has a tendancy to fall over when dealing with large workspaces (bigger than 80 projects or so). The latter of those was the real killer for us.
Anna ![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.freetls.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services
Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch
"Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart"
- A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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Jim Crafton wrote: Because I don't have a $1,000 to burn on either 2003 or 2005.
You can get it for much less than that.
Kevin
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You can get the Pro version for less $1000? Where? Even the CP discount is $899, which is also beyound my budget. The standard version is only suitable for playing around with.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire!
Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!
SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0
0 rows returned
Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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The price may stop you from using it, but if one says: 'Already tried, I'll stick to VS6' he / she implicitly says that there is enough money, but the product is not interesting enough. I wanted to know why he doesn't find it interesting.
Behind every great black man...
... is the police. - Conspiracy brother
Blog[^]
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Bob Stanneveld wrote: The price may stop you from using it, but if one says: 'Already tried, I'll stick to VS6' he / she implicitly says that there is enough money, but the product is not interesting enough. I wanted to know why he doesn't find it interesting.
For us,
1) 10 years invested in product with over 34-40 projects.
2) High expertise, we can design anything we want with current tools.
3) We need to make sure we support all WIN32 systems.
4) Growth of other platforms and business, makes us rethink any new major upgrade investment for a single platform with little need or benefit.
5) The last time we use an exclusive single company language, we got burned big time (Borland, Delphi). The only reason it is even a consideration for anyone, is well, its Microsoft it still has a big market
6) Microsoft is pissing me off more and more each day with its never ending entry into vertical or vendor market business lines and ever expanding lock dependency on their system, tools, etc.
and other reasons. I remember hearing Bill Gates in a Seattle Local TV News station when I arrived in the hotel room, the day before Windows Developers conference, answering the interview question, "how do you compete with competitors?" he anwsers "Control the standards, then change them every two-three years." That left a very bittle taste in me and I never forgot it. It left an never ending impression that one day, this guy is going to have me by the balls and I won't be able to do anything about it.
So we do what we have and avoid any "lock in dependency" tendencies. In short, we just feel safe with VS 6.0 C/C++ development.
That said, I have not looked at Visual .NET Studio 2003 or Visual Studio 2005, and we might be interesting a basically a VS 6.0 "Upgrade" with maybe a better GUI designer. I'm just note interested in an extra baggage.
Hope that provides some insight.
---
Hector Santos, CTO
Santronics Software, Inc.
http://www.santronics.com
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Bob Stanneveld wrote: Why do you stick to VS6?
* Getting a large code base from VC6 to 2005 is a nightmare.
* for the same performance, we need new PCs (2005 is a terribly slow dog on anything but a P4 1G system), new monitors (screen estate waste!)
* updates for all addons, some are not available
Alas, I'm running into to many problems with VC6, so that I have to move on
Pandoras Gift #44: Hope. The one that keeps you on suffering.
aber.. "Wie gesagt, der Scheiss is' Therapie"
boost your code || Fold With Us! || sighist | doxygen
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at the day job the current rumor is that they are going to try to get work to agree to pay for VS 2005, but who knows when, or even if, that will happen.
if this is anything like the move from VS 2002 to VS 2003 the projects will have to under go a one way conversion when we do the move. at which point, once someone has successfully made the change the cvs will be updated with the new format projects, and all of us will be told to make the one way jump to the new IDE.
for home use, and the evening job, i will just install VS 2005 along side VC6 and VS 2003, and use all three of them as and when required for testing.
i will continue to run all of the IDE's for as long as there are customers out there using them, and the software supports them. thanks to the magic of VMWare i don't have to worry about uninstalling VS 2005 beta 2, so i can just jump straight into this once i have this downloaded.
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
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Did VS 2005 fix any of the problems from VS 2003? For instance, the slow macro start-up time and the resource editor. Or is it only .NET stuff that's improved?
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I suggest you get the rc or ctp. It is well worth getting a feel for it as it improves on vs 2k3 alot.
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VS 2005 provides a lot of new greats features: The editor is really fantastic (no more need to add on like Visual Assist. For example, the code refactoring feature is really cool), there are a lof of new tools integrated, like performance tools, test project...
And of course, the .NET 2.0 framework now offers enough classes and methods (as the 1.x were a little short) and provides some new interesting concepts in C# (I don't use other languages): generic class definition, static classes, partial class definition etc etc...
The list of new things is quite huge, so, you should test it!
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Frederic Sivignon wrote: For example, the code refactoring feature is really cool
Is that enabled on c++ (unmanaged) code also?
In the last release that I tried (beta2) it wasn't enabled and somewhere (sorry I don't remember where..) I also read that it won't be enabled in public release also 
Frederic Sivignon wrote: no more need to add on like Visual Assist
I'm not sure.. they are planning to add code refactoring for c++ 
Bye,
Francesco
TBEditor: a pandapowered app!
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i am under the impression (so i could be wrong) that refactoring is C# only, and is going to stay that way.
as for giving up Visual Assist, i have not spent a lot of time in VS 2005 yet, but there are quite a number of Visual Assist features that i would refuse to give up that do not seem to be in the IDE, "Open File In Workspace" and "Find Symbol In Workspace" instantly come to mind
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
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Some, at least - the infamous literal resource ID bug - which dates back to VS2002 - in the resource editor has apparently now been fixed (Uwe Keim and I beat them up over that one, after they declared it a "won't fix" bug).
I haven't yet tried it with source control to see if the resource editor still crashes when the .rc file is replaced during a "checkout" though.
Anna
Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services
Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch
"Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart"
- A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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That annoying resource ID bug was still present in the RC - haven't got my release version yet, so fingers crossed...
The Rob Blog
Google Talk: robert.caldecott
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The IDE is much improved for the stuff I use (general ASP.NET / C#). No experience with macro start-up times though.
All in all I'm very impressed.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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The biggest problem is the support of .NET 2.0 by the webservers, esecially when you have a shared hosting plan. My service provider hasn't yet specified when they will install the new framework...
___________________________________
Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us.
My Blog [ITA]
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I have a great shared hosting provider that will have .NET 2.0 installed on all servers by next monday 11/07/2005. They provide lots of bandwidth, disk space, and have some of the best customer service I have ever worked with.
If your interested check out 1planhost
Daniel Petersen
President
Pulsar Enterprises, L.L.C.
-- modified at 11:03 Tuesday 1st November, 2005
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My shared hosting plan has unlimited bandwidth and disk space at a far cheaper prices, but they don't tell us when the systems will be updated...
I believe it's not a problem.
___________________________________
Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us.
My Blog [ITA]
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Who is your hosting provider ??? please provide a link. I haven't seen any credible hosting providers for less than 9.00 per month.
Daniel Petersen
President
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Aruba.it
link: http://hosting.aruba.it/?lang=EN[^]
The base price is 24 Euros/YEAR (~29 USD) for 1 domain (com, net, org, it, ...), UNLIMITED disk space, UNLIMITED bandwidth, ASP.NET 1.1, PHP 5, Perl, Access DBs, FrontPage 2k extensions, 5 emails (50 MegaBytes each, with POP3), ...
And a lot other gadgets. MySQL is optional (7 Euros/YEAR 50 MB).
I've 3 websites hosted by Aruba.it (and a friend of mine has a few other sites) and there are no problems, the servers are fast and all goes good.
I say Aruba.it it's the biggest Italian provider.
Take a look...
___________________________________
Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us.
My Blog [ITA]
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