Survey Results

Kevin McFarlane1-Nov-05 10:01

Kevin McFarlane

1-Nov-05 10:01

Jim Crafton wrote:
Because I don't have a $1,000 to burn on either 2003 or 2005.

You can get it for much less than that.

Kevin

Jim Crafton1-Nov-05 10:05

Jim Crafton

1-Nov-05 10:05

You can get the Pro version for less $1000? Where? Even the CP discount is $899, which is also beyound my budget. The standard version is only suitable for playing around with.

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Kevin McFarlane1-Nov-05 10:26

Kevin McFarlane

1-Nov-05 10:26

You can get a VS 2005 Pro upgrade version for an estimated $549 according to this.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/vs2005/editions/pro/Default.aspx[^]

In the UK vendors are selling it for around £350.

Kevin

Bob Stanneveld1-Nov-05 18:45

Bob Stanneveld

1-Nov-05 18:45

The price may stop you from using it, but if one says: 'Already tried, I'll stick to VS6' he / she implicitly says that there is enough money, but the product is not interesting enough. I wanted to know why he doesn't find it interesting.

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hector santos6-Nov-05 1:18

hector santos

6-Nov-05 1:18

Bob Stanneveld wrote:
The price may stop you from using it, but if one says: 'Already tried, I'll stick to VS6' he / she implicitly says that there is enough money, but the product is not interesting enough. I wanted to know why he doesn't find it interesting.

For us,

1) 10 years invested in product with over 34-40 projects.

2) High expertise, we can design anything we want with current tools.

3) We need to make sure we support all WIN32 systems.

4) Growth of other platforms and business, makes us rethink any new major upgrade investment for a single platform with little need or benefit.

5) The last time we use an exclusive single company language, we got burned big time (Borland, Delphi). The only reason it is even a consideration for anyone, is well, its Microsoft it still has a big market

6) Microsoft is pissing me off more and more each day with its never ending entry into vertical or vendor market business lines and ever expanding lock dependency on their system, tools, etc.

and other reasons. I remember hearing Bill Gates in a Seattle Local TV News station when I arrived in the hotel room, the day before Windows Developers conference, answering the interview question, "how do you compete with competitors?" he anwsers "Control the standards, then change them every two-three years." That left a very bittle taste in me and I never forgot it. It left an never ending impression that one day, this guy is going to have me by the balls and I won't be able to do anything about it.

So we do what we have and avoid any "lock in dependency" tendencies. In short, we just feel safe with VS 6.0 C/C++ development.

That said, I have not looked at Visual .NET Studio 2003 or Visual Studio 2005, and we might be interesting a basically a VS 6.0 "Upgrade" with maybe a better GUI designer. I'm just note interested in an extra baggage.

Hope that provides some insight.

---
Hector Santos, CTO
Santronics Software, Inc.
http://www.santronics.com

6, 2003 and 2005 indefinitely

peterchen2-Nov-05 0:14

peterchen

2-Nov-05 0:14

Bob Stanneveld wrote:
Why do you stick to VS6?

* Getting a large code base from VC6 to 2005 is a nightmare.
* for the same performance, we need new PCs (2005 is a terribly slow dog on anything but a P4 1G system), new monitors (screen estate waste!)
* updates for all addons, some are not available

Alas, I'm running into to many problems with VC6, so that I have to move on

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Nish Nishant31-Oct-05 0:38

Nish Nishant

31-Oct-05 0:38

none of the above, just for a change :)

feline_dracoform30-Oct-05 23:46

feline_dracoform

30-Oct-05 23:46

at the day job the current rumor is that they are going to try to get work to agree to pay for VS 2005, but who knows when, or even if, that will happen.

if this is anything like the move from VS 2002 to VS 2003 the projects will have to under go a one way conversion when we do the move. at which point, once someone has successfully made the change the cvs will be updated with the new format projects, and all of us will be told to make the one way jump to the new IDE.

for home use, and the evening job, i will just install VS 2005 along side VC6 and VS 2003, and use all three of them as and when required for testing.

i will continue to run all of the IDE's for as long as there are customers out there using them, and the software supports them. thanks to the magic of VMWare i don't have to worry about uninstalling VS 2005 beta 2, so i can just jump straight into this once i have this downloaded.

zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness

How is VS 2005 anyways?

ed welch30-Oct-05 23:17

ed welch

30-Oct-05 23:17

Did VS 2005 fix any of the problems from VS 2003? For instance, the slow macro start-up time and the resource editor. Or is it only .NET stuff that's improved?

Xybex31-Oct-05 1:17

Xybex

31-Oct-05 1:17

I suggest you get the rc or ctp. It is well worth getting a feel for it as it improves on vs 2k3 alot.

FredericSivignonPro31-Oct-05 3:12

FredericSivignonPro

31-Oct-05 3:12

VS 2005 provides a lot of new greats features: The editor is really fantastic (no more need to add on like Visual Assist. For example, the code refactoring feature is really cool), there are a lof of new tools integrated, like performance tools, test project...

And of course, the .NET 2.0 framework now offers enough classes and methods (as the 1.x were a little short) and provides some new interesting concepts in C# (I don't use other languages): generic class definition, static classes, partial class definition etc etc...

The list of new things is quite huge, so, you should test it!

Francesco Aruta1-Nov-05 8:28

Francesco Aruta

1-Nov-05 8:28

Frederic Sivignon wrote:
For example, the code refactoring feature is really cool

Is that enabled on c++ (unmanaged) code also?
In the last release that I tried (beta2) it wasn't enabled and somewhere (sorry I don't remember where..) I also read that it won't be enabled in public release also Frown | :(

Frederic Sivignon wrote:
no more need to add on like Visual Assist

I'm not sure.. they are planning to add code refactoring for c++ Smile | :)

Bye,
Francesco

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feline_dracoform1-Nov-05 23:43

feline_dracoform

1-Nov-05 23:43

i am under the impression (so i could be wrong) that refactoring is C# only, and is going to stay that way.

as for giving up Visual Assist, i have not spent a lot of time in VS 2005 yet, but there are quite a number of Visual Assist features that i would refuse to give up that do not seem to be in the IDE, "Open File In Workspace" and "Find Symbol In Workspace" instantly come to mind Smile | :)

zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe31-Oct-05 5:44

Anna-Jayne Metcalfe

31-Oct-05 5:44

Some, at least - the infamous literal resource ID bug - which dates back to VS2002 - in the resource editor has apparently now been fixed (Uwe Keim and I beat them up over that one, after they declared it a "won't fix" bug).

I haven't yet tried it with source control to see if the resource editor still crashes when the .rc file is replaced during a "checkout" though.

Anna Rose | [Rose]

Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services

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Rob Caldecott4-Nov-05 5:41

Rob Caldecott

4-Nov-05 5:41

That annoying resource ID bug was still present in the RC - haven't got my release version yet, so fingers crossed...

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Chris Maunder31-Oct-05 5:45

Chris Maunder

31-Oct-05 5:45

The IDE is much improved for the stuff I use (general ASP.NET / C#). No experience with macro start-up times though.

All in all I'm very impressed.

cheers,
Chris Maunder

CodeProject.com : C++ MVP

The problem is...

Dario Solera30-Oct-05 21:06

Dario Solera

30-Oct-05 21:06

The biggest problem is the support of .NET 2.0 by the webservers, esecially when you have a shared hosting plan. My service provider hasn't yet specified when they will install the new framework...

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Daniel Petersen1-Nov-05 4:56

Daniel Petersen

1-Nov-05 4:56

I have a great shared hosting provider that will have .NET 2.0 installed on all servers by next monday 11/07/2005. They provide lots of bandwidth, disk space, and have some of the best customer service I have ever worked with.

If your interested check out 1planhost

Daniel Petersen
President
Pulsar Enterprises, L.L.C.

-- modified at 11:03 Tuesday 1st November, 2005

Dario Solera1-Nov-05 6:03

Dario Solera

1-Nov-05 6:03

My shared hosting plan has unlimited bandwidth and disk space at a far cheaper prices, but they don't tell us when the systems will be updated...

I believe it's not a problem.

___________________________________
Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us.
My Blog [ITA]

Daniel Petersen1-Nov-05 6:50

Daniel Petersen

1-Nov-05 6:50

Who is your hosting provider ??? please provide a link. I haven't seen any credible hosting providers for less than 9.00 per month.

Daniel Petersen
President