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George wrote:
Don't cry little boy, there will be a lot of opportunities to insult the people in the future.
I'm afraid this comment says an awful lot about your own character George. Polite disagreement is one thing, but this is just childish.
Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
"I would be careful in separating your wierdness, a good quirky weirdness, from the disturbed wierdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories."
- Paul Watson
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Andy Metcalfe wrote:
I'm afraid this comment says an awful lot about your own character George. Polite disagreement is one thing, but this is just childish.
I am very sorry, but temporarily my supplies of "polite disagreement" were used up after the previous exchange with CG. 
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I am very sorry, but temporarily my supplies of "polite disagreement" were used up after the previous exchange with CG.
Yeah, CG and his loyal friends are not exactly known for their politeness around here. But I bet you will get tired of this (argument) long before he does, this is his life. Give it up, man
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Christian Graus wrote:
Why did the last poll only last a day ?
Yeah, I am confused regarding that.
Nish
Nish was here, now Nish has gone;
He left his soul, to turn you on;
Those who knew Nish, knew him well;
Those who didn't, can go to hell.
I like to ![Jig | [Dance]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/jig.gif) on the Code Project
Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain
www.busterboy.org
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a) because I got my 200 responses. I needed to know what sort of split we had between VS6 and VS.NET.
b) because I find it sad that so many people are scared of learning new things. It's even more sad the lengths that people go to in order to justify their convictions. We see the same FUD being spouted by people in order that they have a basis to justify them not stepping out of their comfort zone.
It's interesting to see that not a single person put down that they are ultra conservative, yet that's exactly the attitude that I see prevalent.
I admire everyone who has dived into the new .NET technologies to the point where we have hundreds of amazing articles before it was even launched. I also respect everyone (such as Mike Dunn) who has read up on .NET, has used the IDE, and has decided it's simply not their cup of tea. It's those who say 'my old C++ code won't compile' or 'the new compiler introduces buffer overrun vulnerabilities' without even checking that annoy me.
I don't care what your opinion is - just make sure it's based on reality.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
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The thing is, it sucks to run to the latest craze only to find out it was the wrong direction ... ala Java. How much hoopla surrounded that language when it came out? And how many companies are back to C++ now?
.NET is interesting, but it's hard to justify the time to checking it out in case it's another flash in the pan ...
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By .NET, I of course mean, C#.
In terms of just using .NET to write C++ code, that's probably reasonable ...
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Do you really know any companies that moved to Java and then back to C++? I mean, most of these folks were in the Unix/Solaris space anyway, but of the ones that I have exposure to they're all happy Java users now, and C++ is used to write JNI plug-ins.
Chris is absolutely right, get with the program guys. Although I love C++ and I have done well by it over the years, the world is changing and you can either lead or follow behind.
David
http://www.dundas.com
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David Cunningham wrote:
Do you really know any companies that moved to Java and then back to C++?
I knew some that didn't and went down when .com buble burst. The remaining I believe stay with Java thought.
David Cunningham wrote:
Chris is absolutely right, get with the program guys. Although I love C++ and I have done well by it over the years, the world is changing and you can either lead or follow behind.
Are you suggesting that C++ "follows behind"? 
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David Cunningham wrote:
Chris is absolutely right, get with the program guys. Although I love C++ and I have done well by it over the years, the world is changing and you can either lead or follow behind.
But, he is not right.
I, for one, intend to become knowledgable of the new technologies simply because I think they may help me resolve a class of application design issues that I've been pondering for a long time. However, when it comes to most of the *real* work thats going on in the *real* world, I fail to see any advantage to C# and .Net over C++ and old time client/server development technigues.
Automatic garbage collection? What a joke! In over 13 years of C++ development I have spent maybe an hour and a half fixing memory leaks. Anyone who cannot do memory management correctly in C++ is going to find some other way to totally f**k up a C# app no matter how "managed" it is.
C++ is the best language for the development of large scale, desktop oriented, client-server based applications. It always has been, and it always will be. And there is plenty of that kind of work out there.
I predict right now that a well designed C++ application will blow the socks off of a well designed C# application of the same size. And take less time to design and maintain than the C# app.
"Thank you, thank you very much" Elvis.
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Chris Maunder wrote:
I don't care what your opinion is - just make sure it's based on reality.
I could not agree more. As for the split, the thing is that this is surely transient ? I will be moving to VS.NET by degrees over the next month or so, but I would say at a guess I will hardly run VC++ 6.0 within two months. Right now I had to say I've run it two or three times, because it's only since my holiday I've decided to have a serious look ( largely because my new job puts me back into the M$ camp instead of seeking cross platform solutions ), and right now I have too much on to do more than read my book on the bus.
It will be interesting if you run the same poll again in three months, where the balance is then.
Christian
I have come to clean zee pooollll. - Michael Martin Dec 30, 2001
Picture the daffodil. And while you do that, I'll be over here going through your stuff.
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>> It's interesting to see that not a single person put down that they are ultra conservative
My boss can be ultra conservative - but that's a good thing: slowing me down swhen I get to experimental....
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Chris Maunder wrote:
because I find it sad that so many people are scared of learning new things.
What do you mean by "scared"? Maybe they just don't want to... Or maybe they simply want to "wait and see"...
Chris Maunder wrote:
We see the same FUD being spouted by people in order that they have a basis to justify them not stepping out of their comfort zone.
Nobody will want to step out of comfort zone if that means to step into an "uncomfort zone". Eg. I am seriously considering to use new C++ compiler if I find the way to plug it into the old IDE (because new IDE is not my cup of tea, never liked VI or VB style stuff). I know it's possible, and when/if I have time I am going to try it.
Chris Maunder wrote:
It's interesting to see that not a single person put down that they are ultra conservative, yet that's exactly the attitude that I see prevalent.
Just because I don't want to spend money on new VS.NET doesn't mean that I don't like new things. In fact I am digging thru a lot of new things, they are just not .NET specific. You will notice a difference between the poll about .NET and a poll about "things in gereral" (and this one appears to be the latter). .NET is still not mature anought for people to want to move, it will change with time and either it will go high up or it will sick down, only time will tell...
Chris Maunder wrote:
I also respect everyone (such as Mike Dunn) who has read up on .NET, has used the IDE, and has decided it's simply not their cup of tea.
Does trying the .NET beta count? In that case thanks Chris.
Chris Maunder wrote:
It's those who say 'my old C++ code won't compile' or 'the new compiler introduces buffer overrun vulnerabilities' without even checking that annoy me.
While you do have a point with buffer overrun, the problem with the old code is real. No, I am not giving example because I don't have the final release of .NET and I will not buy one just to prove the point. But it is something that not only individuals, but the whole companies consider as a problem. Sure enought, with time most people will move on and we will all have a good laught about it, but as for today it's the important factor. Even if it's a small amount of changes to fix it people will wait before moving on. Believe or not, there are still folks using VS50, and even occasionally you can find people working with VC1.5 and writing apps for Windows 3.1.... (BTW: not me, I use VS60 Ent. both at home and in the office).
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I agree wholeheartedly. Well said Chris. ![Beer | [beer]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/beer.gif)
Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
"I would be careful in separating your wierdness, a good quirky weirdness, from the disturbed wierdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories."
- Paul Watson
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that none have chosen "ultra conservative". Those people are still writing their code in Borland C++/Turbo C++ for DOS. They still haven't gotten a decent browser to be able to answer this poll. 
Sonorked as well: 100.13197 jorgen
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LOL
Good one Jörgen
Nish
Nish was here, now Nish has gone;
He left his soul, to turn you on;
Those who knew Nish, knew him well;
Those who didn't, can go to hell.
I like to on the Code Project
Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain
www.busterboy.org
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It's the truth! I swear!
A year ago I taught computer science at the University of Karlstad. Three out of a hundred students was displeased with our choice of lab operating systems - Linux and Windows NT.
Me: "What do you wan't instead? Macintosh? OS/2?"
They: "We want DOS. It's faster and better."
Me: "So you don't want virtual memory, memory protection and all other nice services these operating systems provide you?"
They: "Nope, that's just hogging the resources."
This was during lab hours. I went back to the office to have a big strong cup of coffee. Aren't the kids/young people supposed embrace NEW technology and enhance them when they "grow" up??? You know, to get the wheel spinning.
I later found out that there is a web browser for DOS called Arachnia or something like that (which these students used). At the time, it did not support javascript, css, or anything fancy. I don't think it even rendered tables then. Given the amount of DOS users/developers out there, I estimate they'll have an enough powerful browser to actually use Codeproject at around 2012.
(I have to admit though that I use DOS occasionally to play old games such as Monkey Island. VMWare 3 + FreeDOS is a excellent combo when you're feeling retro  )
Sonorked as well: 100.13197 jorgen
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People at the bank are ultra conservative... our system is written in COBOL 
Mauricio Ritter - Brazil
Sonorking now: 100.13560 Trank
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I know of ATM's running DOS and GUI written in either Turbo Pascal or Turbo C++.
1) I know it's DOS because it rebooted just in front of me!
2) It must have been written in TP or TC++. I can spot BGI a mile away..
This was like 2 years ago. These machines have been replaced by Windows NT based machines. Did it get any better? No. Believe it or not, but the ATM is so "lagged", it sometimes ignores my key presses as if the CPU was under heavy load.
Where's the good old days when the ATM's worked and the screen lit up in a lovely green color?
Sonorked as well: 100.13197 jorgen
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Now, that is what I call a proffesional at work...
5/5 Chris
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