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Idiot. Does this look like a place to post your idiotic question? Two tips:
1. Get a Handle on how Capitalization works in the English Language. You're not writing a tribute to Jonathan Swift.
2. Change your title to "Robert W. Haynie, Message-Board Consultant"
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To who ever you happen to be please take this opportunity to kindly grow up.
I certainly had no intent to offend any one. Not even you. However I do note that with the logon name of “Anonymous” you certainly have the maturity necessary to justify your language. Perhaps when you are next teaching English you might take the opportunity to look up the words “abuse” and “respect“.
Perhaps where you come from you are free to start a conversation by calling some one names. I however no not live in such a world.
Thank you for your feed back to my posting, I hope the rest of the world and the administrators of this forum find your blatantly abusive response as in lighting as I have.
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For the Web Dev, Macromedia release a similar technology in a program named FLEXI, where a XML file output a Flash Application, and support animation too. I don't remember the link, but in Macromedia you can find it. 
----
hxxbin
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i always thougth people embelished on these surveys. with more than half(includes me) not knowing what XAML is, that seem about right.What is it anyway?
No matter how many times u take a dump, u can never accumulate more than your mother.
West African proverb(a favorite of my mother).
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Yeah, thats right. What the hell is XAML?? a new kind of XML??
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(at the risk of getting obnoxious):
You can click on the word "XAML" in the survey, or you can click on the word "MyXaml" in my sig.
Marc
Microsoft MVP, Visual C#
MyXaml
MyXaml Blog
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You can click on the word "XAML" in the survey, or you can click on the word MyXaml in my sig.
Marc
Microsoft MVP, Visual C#
MyXaml
MyXaml Blog
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Check this out:
http://xul.sourceforge.net
http://www.thinlet.com
This has been around for a while now... Why do guys from Microsoft would not just endorce already existing works and contribute to them, rather than renaming them and present as their own?
This is soooooooo Microsoft.
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A frequently asked question is: Why doesn't Avalon just use SVG? On the face of it, it seems strange to invent a new way of representing vector graphics in markup when a standard already exists. However, the principal advantage of these shape classes is that they have been designed to integrate into the Avalon programming model. The vector drawing elements derive from the same FrameworkElement base class as all other XAML elements, and follow the same naming conventions. SVG has its own set of conventions for element and attribute names that is at odds with the existing .NET Framework class library. Furthermore, SVG elements were not designed to fit into the Avalon object model. By not using SVG, Avalon ensures that vector graphics can be mixed in with any other kind of markup in your XAML, and can take advantage of all of the same layout facilities. (Note that in the version of the Longhorn SDK documentation released at the 2003 PDC, the XAML elements used for vector drawing are sometimes referred to collectively as WVG (Windows Vector Graphics). However, Microsoft is no longer using this name, because it implies, incorrectly, that these elements are somehow distinct from all of the other elements supported by Avalon.)
I'd like to add to that and say, do you really want Microsoft to use someone else's technology as an integral part of Windows? The last time that happened we ended up with J++.
When you develop your own technology, there is no fear of lawsuits, licensing problems, open vs closed source issues, no problems introducing new functionality, and no integration problems with the existing code base (i.e. the .NET BCL).
---------------------------
He who knows that enough is enough will always have enough.
-Lao Tsu
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MacTruck wrote:
When you develop your own technology, there is no fear of lawsuits, licensing problems,
NOT true at all! If somebody else developed it before, even if you didn't necessarily use their implementation, you could still be in trouble if they have patents on it.
"Fish and guests stink in three days." - Benjamin Franlkin
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"When you develop your own technology, there is nofear of lawsuits, licensing problems, open vs closed source issues, no problems introducing new functionality, and no integration problems with the existing code base (i.e. the .NET BCL)"
You’ve missed the point altogether and I can tell you haven’t been using Open Source, thus your reasoning is incorrect as it is not the way Open Source works.
XUL is a standard and has no particular implementation that anyone has to go with.
Microsoft could build its own if it wishes too. I'm just angry at the naming and no mention of XUL whatsoever. Taking well known and documented and proposed a long time ago ideas and giving them new names without even acknowledgement of the original source is in the end stealing. It is to me.
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Anonymous wrote:
I can tell you haven’t been using Open Source
Why - because I mentioned Microsoft has had bad past experience using 3rd party technologies? Come on man don't spew Stallmanism at me.
Anonymous wrote:
I'm just angry at the naming and no mention of XUL whatsoever.
Oh come on...I just pointed you to a Microsoft article mentioning both XUL and SVG technolgies as progenitors of XAML. What do you want them to do, call it, "Microsoft's rip off of various XUL and SVG implementations" ? Somehow, MSROOFVXULASVGI doesn't sound as catchy as XAML.
---------------------------
He who knows that enough is enough will always have enough.
-Lao Tsu
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Anonymous wrote:
You’ve missed the point altogether and I can tell you haven’t been using Open Source, thus your reasoning is incorrect as it is not the way Open Source works.
Hey, that sounds awefully like somebody's favourite pickup line!
Norman Fung
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Griffiths isn't quite going deep enough into the question in that quote.
He's saying that they didn't use SVG because it didn't fit with their other proprietary formats. Why not? There are other open formats that SVG does fit in well with, why aren't they using those as well? Why didn't they design Avalon so that they could use SVG?
So it's not really an answer to the question, just "well, it's too late for that now."
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XAML is not XUL, and XUL is not XAML.
What is XUL (from the Luxor site):
XUL is superior to API-based GUI toolkits such as Swing or WinForms because it clearly separates the user interface into four parts:
content (structure and description of UI elements),
appearance (look&feel, skin, themes),
behavior and
locale (localization information for internationalization)
What is XAML (my own words):
Although MS is mutilated the concept a bit, the original idea behind XAML is that each element tag represents a class, and the element's attributes represent class properties. Therefore, the underlying classes define the DOM, not some markup-based syntax which can be parsed with or without a DOM.
Charles Petzold: "XAML is called the Extensible Application Markup Language for a reason. Any class that has a public parameterless constructor and
settable properties can be used in XAML... "
Dino Esposito: "the suite of XAML markup tags is more abstract and broader than the set of Win32 common controls or Windows Forms controls. "
(sources for the above to quotes: http://xml.coverpages.org/ms-xaml.html[^])
====================================================
Let's look at the motors on the xul.sourceforge.net link:
mozilla - XUL (pronounced "zool") is Mozilla's XML-based User interface Language that lets you build feature-rich cross platform applications that can run connected or disconnected from the Internet.
luxor - Luxor is a free, open-source XML User Interface Language (XUL) toolkit in Java released under the GNU General Public License (GPL) that supports hand-picked Mozilla XUL goodies and also includes a ultra-light weight, multi-threaded web server, a portal engine and Apache Velocity as its template engine.
swing - SwiXml, is a small GUI generating engine for Java applications and applets.
xoetrope - XUI is a Java and XML framework for building rich client, desktop and mobile applications.
thinlets - Thinlet is a GUI toolkit, a single Java class, parses the hierarchy and properties of the GUI, handles user interaction, and calls business logic.
myxaml - XAML as I described it above. C#, .NET! but not XUL!
====================================================
Now, in my mind, all the existing implementations are heavily Java oriented (except for MyXaml) and implement a specific markup syntax (except for MyXaml). The thinlet widgets come closest to my definition of XAML, in the sense that there is an underlying class for the markup tags and properties. However, prior to XAML, xamlon, mobiform, myxaml, there really hasn't been a .NET/C# implementation, at least that I'm aware of. So, what's so wrong with Microsoft creating one for .NET? And, it's really a different beast than an XUL implementation.
Marc
Microsoft MVP, Visual C#
MyXaml
MyXaml Blog
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Couldn't have said it better myself. 
---------------------------
He who knows that enough is enough will always have enough.
-Lao Tsu
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Both MS Xaml and MyXaml look good, and I understand the differences between the two, however, some developers I've talked to were mistaking MyXaml for an implementation of MS Xaml. Name confusion! Still, Marc Clifton's is a neat way of using Xml to assist in defining a presentation layer and I'm curious if MyXaml has caught any attention from Microsoft.
Windows Longhorn testers and developers actually use MS Xaml and Avalon right now, though the general public won't see it until Longhorn really ships. As Marc Clifton states, the two Xamls will most likely diverge, but his Xaml will likely be compatible with the MS version, again Marc, kudos.
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Thanks Ian (that's my son's name too, BTW). I'm wondering if it would be an honor to get a letter from MS's legal department telling me I need to change the name, hehe. (If they do, I'm gonna scan it and post a link to it here on CP!) However, the name is a bit like "SQL". MySQL wasn't exactly standard (if there is such a thing) SQL either, when I looked at it a few years ago.
Marc
Microsoft MVP, Visual C#
MyXaml
MyXaml Blog
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I'm curious to know why this survey links to www.xaml.net and not to an official Microsoft site.
The site linked to, doesn't inspire much confidence.
Michael
CP Blog [^]
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Michael P Butler wrote:
The site linked to, doesn't inspire much confidence.
<cynicism level=high>And you are expecting an official Microsoft site that would probably note that this technology won't even be available until 2006/2007, would inspire more confidence?</cynicism>
"Fish and guests stink in three days." - Benjamin Franlkin
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Navin wrote:
official Microsoft site
That's funny, I always thought CP was a CodeWise community.
Well, I guess Bill must be an Austra-Canadian. 
Cheers,
Simon
sig ::
"Don't try to be like Jackie. There is only one Jackie.... Study computers instead.", Jackie Chan on career choices.
article :: animation mechanics in SVG blog:: brokenkeyboards
"It'll be a cold day in Hell when I do VB.NET...", Chris Maunder
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It also looks like it has changed now to a Microsoft link. Big brother Chris must be reading...
"Fish and guests stink in three days." - Benjamin Franlkin
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Hi,
I'm the author behind the xaml.net site referred to in this survey. I was interested to see such a large response. To be honest I didn't imagine that many people would be currently using XAML since it is primarily a Longhorn technology.
Nevertheless, I hope you find the site informative. Feel free to check out my upcoming book, "Network Programming in .NET with C# and VB.NET" (http://network.programming-in.net). Thanks again to the guys at code project!
Regards
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