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You've tried the best, now try the rest! 
But in the end, it's all just database access right? And that stuff is just plain boring.
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Why should programming be easy? Would you feel comfortable if your heart surgeon decided that it's easier to use a cute and fuzzy multi colored spoon to take out your heart instead of a sterile scalpel? Right tools for the right job. VB is a prototyping tool for GUI's, not a language for production code.
Johann. With all due respect, I've never read someone confidently spouting as much crap
as you have in the above. What a piss poor analogy.
Just look at that smooth, clean, not fuzzy !!! precision instrument .... THE SCALPEL.!
Do you really think that your surgeon would opt for a tool that couldn't do the job.
I guess that your the sort of person that would have your dentist brush your teeth with
a scalpel, or your surgeon sow your arm on with a scalpel, Eat your dinner with a scalpel
and fork..... yea.
Horses for courses my friend... and if you can't see that ......
it's because you can't see. 
Without education, you're not going anywhere in this world.
Malcolm X, speech at Militant Labor Forum, NY, 29 May 1964
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Give me a break. Ya know, you guys are pretty full of yourselves. Especially y'all who give the 'Amen', and 'I agree' business.
You're like the guys who insist all carpenters use two-by-fours and 16-penny nails to build a house, and laugh at those using preforms.
If it's not a language for production code, why have I been writing productive code for successful deployments for many years? You know, I should go back to all those installments and give their money back. Shoot, I feel bad now.
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Yes, programming should be easy.
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I have to reply again. VB kicks ass! You other guys will not have a job soon! You need to find better, cheaper and faster ways to do your job or the 25 year olds like me are gonna roll your ass. VB rules..hip hip horrah!
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And then the 17 year olds like me who know C# are gonna "roll your ass".
Quit trolling, go pick up a C++ book or something.
I have also lived some years in Spain, and there people don't accept that you speak bad spanish. I usually compensate by speaking loud and accusing people of being stupid because they don't understand me. It usually works quite well.
-jhaga on non-native languages
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David Stone wrote:
Quit trolling, go pick up a C++ book or something.
Jeremy Falcon
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Who says C# is something to aspire to? Or even C++? Why not Python? Why not Ada and its annexes? Why not Lisp?
Are ye the snobs or what!!! As for me, I'm finishing my second masters degree in May in CS, and I'm STILL an avid VB developer, now working on apps for PDAs as well as client-server work across a WAN. I incorporated last summer, and love the work which you so loath and lord over others! At no less than $35 and hour.
Thanks! 
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Fortner wrote:
I'm finishing my second masters degree in May in CS
Big deal, college doesn't teach you much in the way of real world programming. I know people with master's degrees and their educaction level doesn't impress me much.
Fortner wrote:
I incorporated last summer, and love the work which you so loath and lord over others! At no less than $35 and hour.
Well, for one I don't believe you. For two, who cares what you make? And for three, who's acting like a snob now?
Jeremy Falcon
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Everyone can use lessons in team work, but you're definitive proof. You are an infant to this working world. Many a programmer like you thinks VB developers are at some un-developed level. Now that you have met an avid VB user that has been a paid engineer in a world class company for over 8 years making 60k and has realized that working for himself is more lucrative, all you can say is "who's acting like a snob now?"
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Fortner wrote:
all you can say is "who's acting like a snob now?"
As always, you completely missed the point. I'm tired of wasting my time with you.
Jeremy Falcon
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<rant>
VB causes people who have very little or no understanding of programming to write applications. Most pure VB programmers have no clue when it comes to scalability or ease of maintenance. C based languages are must less forgiving than VB, and so with good reason. VB encourages sloppy coding.
Why should programming be easy? Would you feel comfortable if your heart surgeon decided that it's easier to use a cute and fuzzy multi colored spoon to take out your heart instead of a sterile scalpel? Right tools for the right job. VB is a prototyping tool for GUI's, not a language for production code.
modified 30-Aug-22 21:01pm.
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...just bad programmers.
Use the right tool for the job.
Ant.
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I have seen this argument used in many places but I would like to see a definitive list of times when it is considered suitable to use VB and when it is not.
Honestly I can see a few areas where it is required to use something like C++. Places where code needs to be very tight and fast, but then most of the C++ programmers that I know will still use inline ASM for code like this so I cannot say that argument is 100% either.
I have to use C++ when I am dealing with hardware that does not offer a VB capable API interface or on an application that requires threads.
I also have to use C++ for software that runs on most embedded systems just because there is no room for the VB runtime and it also usually falls into one or both of the other areas listed above.
But for a business type application, I see VB as a very good contender. Even more so now that .NET has arrived and we have a BIT more of a level playing field as far as runtimes and types go.
Paul Watson wrote:
"At the end of the day it is what you produce that counts, not how many doctorates you have on the wall."
George Carlin wrote:
"Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
If the physicists find a universal theory describing the laws of universe, I'm sure the a**hole constant will be an integral part of that theory.
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Its definately hard to state "black and white" where you would use one language over any other.
There is also no reason why you wouldn't use a mixture of languages for the various components that make up your solution.
Ant.
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Ray Cassick wrote:
But for a business type application, I see VB as a very good contender. Even more so now that .NET has arrived and we have a BIT more of a level playing field as far as runtimes and types
I agree in the past where you had to develop a data centric type of application, for example a stock control system, VB would be done for the UI and maybe a springling of COM for some of the business logic.
But with the advent of .net I would say that C# is the man for the job, that's my opinion because I just don't like VB has a structured programming language.
I am that is
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I use VB when I want to test an activex control. Quick and easy and if it works in that environment it's probably going to work anywhere
Rob Manderson
http://www.mindprobes.net
Paul Watson wrote:What sense would you most dislike loosing?
Ian Darling replied.
Telepathy
Then I'd no longer be able to find out everyones dirty little secrets The Lounge, December 4 2003
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Ray Cassick wrote:
I have seen this argument used in many places but I would like to see a definitive list of times when it is considered suitable to use VB and when it is not.
It all depends on your background and experience.
I tended to pick C++/MFC for things that may have been quicker and better in VB. Database apps with reasonably simple GUI's were far better suited to VB than C++ (providing you wrote actual code rather than just dropping a data connection object onto a form).
Of course, C# has now made VB obsolete in my eyes. In C# it is as easy to write DB apps as it is to write them in VB. Plus you get the added bonus, of a decent syntax and a great development enviroment. (Two things that VB6 lacked)
Michael
But you know when the truth is told,
That you can get what you want or you can just get old,
Your're going to kick off before you even get halfway through.
When will you realise... Vienna waits for you? - "The Stranger," Billy Joel
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Antony M Kancidrowski wrote:
There are no bad programming languages...
...just bad programmers.
...and those bad programmers seem to favor VB...
Antony M Kancidrowski wrote:
Use the right tool for the job.
Keep in mind, a good portion of this is personal preference - and not just yours! On any sizeable project, using a language which will be understood and easily maintained by others working on it may in fact trump other reasons for choosing a particular tool.
As an aside: i learned to code using fairly simple BASIC interpreters. Once i decided it was time to move on, i put a fair bit of effort into choosing a new language to learn. After some research, i decided on C and Forth as languages that looked to be the most useful. C (followed later by C++, Objective C, Java...) has proved to be quite useful to me... Forth, because of its relative obscurity, has not. And so even when there are situations where it might in fact be the better tool, i have touched Forth only once in the past five years (at which point it was to write a simple implementation of it for use on a project... in VBScript).
But in the end, it's all just database access right? And that stuff is just plain boring.
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Shog9 wrote:
a good portion of this is personal preference
Very very true. I'm in the process of learning C# but still at the low part of the learning curve. So when I want to start a new project it's very hard to overcome the neural paths that want to drive me into the C++ application wizards. Luckily (and unluckily) I'm unemployed right now so I have only myself to argue with over the language of choice.
Shog9 wrote:
As an aside: i learned to code using fairly simple BASIC interpreters
I learned on the Z80 and then spent some years with HP Rocky Mountain Basic writing test instrument systems. One of my creations even became an HP product (HP Z-50601A if I remember rightly). I think we sold all of 3 copies
Like you, I decided it was time to move on and generalise. I found C and then C++. I'd happily stick with C++ but a part of me says that to stick to the one language is to stagnate. I'm way too young to accept stagnation
Rob Manderson
http://www.mindprobes.net
Paul Watson wrote:What sense would you most dislike loosing?
Ian Darling replied.
Telepathy
Then I'd no longer be able to find out everyones dirty little secrets The Lounge, December 4 2003
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there ARE bad programming languages: ever heard from Turbo Pascal?!
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and personally i like C - style languages like C++ or C# more than VB.net because they have a shorter syntax than VB
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Anonymous wrote:
there ARE bad programming languages: ever heard from Turbo Pascal?!
Hey. My first proper programming was done in Turbo Pascal. Turbo Pascal was a great language and environment for it's time.
Of course, I still think Borland blew it when they turned it into Delphi but that has more to do with the libraries and the environment than the language itself.
Michael
But you know when the truth is told,
That you can get what you want or you can just get old,
Your're going to kick off before you even get halfway through.
When will you realise... Vienna waits for you? - "The Stranger," Billy Joel
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You just happened to pick my first procedural language and IMHO was the best programming language under DOS for its time!
Ant.
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