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well its changing but yes it used to be very easy to write dirty code. 
Though haven't touch VB.NET yet every time i look at it... reminds me of VB 5/ 6
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My problem with it is that the language is so simple that it allows people who should not be programming to do so and produce very low quality applications...
John
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close. think the model has been implemented across languages.. c# isnt so bad... c++ used to be wicked... so i guess we now have a common model which was inherited from VB and c++ features inherited across languages to an extent.
PS: with 1.2 release we should see overloading implemented in VB
C#'s getting some c++ template equivalent
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That's crazy talk and the very reason people who think like you are loosing their jobs to people like me. I crank out applications in record time compared to the dinosaurs around here and management sees that. My apps work just as good as those other guys and I don't have a single day of programming education. I learned in right after I learned HTML and it was fairly easy.
Technology shold be getting easier and easier or we're doing something wrong. Wouldn't it be cool if everyday people could write programs just like everyday people today do video editing at home?
Wake up people!
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p05esto wrote:
management sees that.
They probably never programmed a line of code in their life and thus don't have a clue...
p05esto wrote:
I don't have a single day of programming education
In my experience a lot of applications written in vb are exactly this written by people who do not know what they are doing and it shows. As a consumer I will not buy any software written in VB because I have never seen a VB application that was not total garbage. In the hospital where I work we have a patient database system that has a VB interface which looks like it was written by a fourth grader. It crashes often and half the features do not work all the time. It was so bad that we have given up on it and are rewriting it in-house.
p05esto wrote:
Wouldn't it be cool if everyday people could write programs just like everyday people today do video editing at home?
NO WAY. Most people can not even set the clock on their VCR when it has menus that guide you through the whole process.
John
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<rant>
VB causes people who have very little or no understanding of programming to write applications. Most pure VB programmers have no clue when it comes to coding for scalability or ease of maintenance. C based languages are much less forgiving than VB, and so with good reason. VB encourages sloppy coding and doesn't promote code reuse.
Why should programming be easy? Would you feel comfortable if your heart surgeon decided that it's easier to use a cute and fuzzy multi colored spoon to take out your heart instead of a sterile scalpel? Right tools for the right job. VB is a prototyping tool for GUI's, not a language for production code.
Just my 10 cents...
modified 30-Aug-22 21:01pm.
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Here here, my thoughts exactly
Regards,
Simon Hughes
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Couldn't agree more, Johann.
What else would you expect from a language that promotes non-programmers to use it?
Nothing like a business analyst moving from the depths of Excel's code editor straight to VB and calling himself a developer.
Cheers,
Simon
sig ::
"Don't try to be like Jackie. There is only one Jackie.... Study computers instead.", Jackie Chan on career choices.
article :: animation mechanics in SVG blog:: brokenkeyboards
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Johann de Swardt wrote:
Would you feel comfortable if your heart surgeon decided that it's easier to use a cute and fuzzy multi colored spoon to take out your heart instead of a sterile scalpel?
 That's a pretty good one.
Happy Programming!
WWW::CodeProject::BNEACETP
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You've tried the best, now try the rest!
But in the end, it's all just database access right? And that stuff is just plain boring.
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Why should programming be easy? Would you feel comfortable if your heart surgeon decided that it's easier to use a cute and fuzzy multi colored spoon to take out your heart instead of a sterile scalpel? Right tools for the right job. VB is a prototyping tool for GUI's, not a language for production code.
Johann. With all due respect, I've never read someone confidently spouting as much crap
as you have in the above. What a piss poor analogy.
Just look at that smooth, clean, not fuzzy !!! precision instrument .... THE SCALPEL.!
Do you really think that your surgeon would opt for a tool that couldn't do the job.
I guess that your the sort of person that would have your dentist brush your teeth with
a scalpel, or your surgeon sow your arm on with a scalpel, Eat your dinner with a scalpel
and fork..... yea.
Horses for courses my friend... and if you can't see that ......
it's because you can't see. 
Without education, you're not going anywhere in this world.
Malcolm X, speech at Militant Labor Forum, NY, 29 May 1964
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Give me a break. Ya know, you guys are pretty full of yourselves. Especially y'all who give the 'Amen', and 'I agree' business.
You're like the guys who insist all carpenters use two-by-fours and 16-penny nails to build a house, and laugh at those using preforms.
If it's not a language for production code, why have I been writing productive code for successful deployments for many years? You know, I should go back to all those installments and give their money back. Shoot, I feel bad now.
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Yes, programming should be easy.
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I have to reply again. VB kicks ass! You other guys will not have a job soon! You need to find better, cheaper and faster ways to do your job or the 25 year olds like me are gonna roll your ass. VB rules..hip hip horrah!
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And then the 17 year olds like me who know C# are gonna "roll your ass".
Quit trolling, go pick up a C++ book or something.
I have also lived some years in Spain, and there people don't accept that you speak bad spanish. I usually compensate by speaking loud and accusing people of being stupid because they don't understand me. It usually works quite well.
-jhaga on non-native languages
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David Stone wrote:
Quit trolling, go pick up a C++ book or something.
Jeremy Falcon
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Who says C# is something to aspire to? Or even C++? Why not Python? Why not Ada and its annexes? Why not Lisp?
Are ye the snobs or what!!! As for me, I'm finishing my second masters degree in May in CS, and I'm STILL an avid VB developer, now working on apps for PDAs as well as client-server work across a WAN. I incorporated last summer, and love the work which you so loath and lord over others! At no less than $35 and hour.
Thanks! 
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Fortner wrote:
I'm finishing my second masters degree in May in CS
Big deal, college doesn't teach you much in the way of real world programming. I know people with master's degrees and their educaction level doesn't impress me much.
Fortner wrote:
I incorporated last summer, and love the work which you so loath and lord over others! At no less than $35 and hour.
Well, for one I don't believe you. For two, who cares what you make? And for three, who's acting like a snob now?
Jeremy Falcon
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Everyone can use lessons in team work, but you're definitive proof. You are an infant to this working world. Many a programmer like you thinks VB developers are at some un-developed level. Now that you have met an avid VB user that has been a paid engineer in a world class company for over 8 years making 60k and has realized that working for himself is more lucrative, all you can say is "who's acting like a snob now?"
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Fortner wrote:
all you can say is "who's acting like a snob now?"
As always, you completely missed the point. I'm tired of wasting my time with you.
Jeremy Falcon
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<rant>
VB causes people who have very little or no understanding of programming to write applications. Most pure VB programmers have no clue when it comes to scalability or ease of maintenance. C based languages are must less forgiving than VB, and so with good reason. VB encourages sloppy coding.
Why should programming be easy? Would you feel comfortable if your heart surgeon decided that it's easier to use a cute and fuzzy multi colored spoon to take out your heart instead of a sterile scalpel? Right tools for the right job. VB is a prototyping tool for GUI's, not a language for production code.
modified 30-Aug-22 21:01pm.
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...just bad programmers.
Use the right tool for the job.
Ant.
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I have seen this argument used in many places but I would like to see a definitive list of times when it is considered suitable to use VB and when it is not.
Honestly I can see a few areas where it is required to use something like C++. Places where code needs to be very tight and fast, but then most of the C++ programmers that I know will still use inline ASM for code like this so I cannot say that argument is 100% either.
I have to use C++ when I am dealing with hardware that does not offer a VB capable API interface or on an application that requires threads.
I also have to use C++ for software that runs on most embedded systems just because there is no room for the VB runtime and it also usually falls into one or both of the other areas listed above.
But for a business type application, I see VB as a very good contender. Even more so now that .NET has arrived and we have a BIT more of a level playing field as far as runtimes and types go.
Paul Watson wrote:
"At the end of the day it is what you produce that counts, not how many doctorates you have on the wall."
George Carlin wrote:
"Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
If the physicists find a universal theory describing the laws of universe, I'm sure the a**hole constant will be an integral part of that theory.
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