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We are stuck using VS.NET 2002, v1. Apparently the bugs found in in this version have not been fixed in 2003 (resource editor wackiness, in particular), and this would be our only reason to upgrade; so we'll be using the 2002 version for the forseeable future.
If MS would provide bug fixes, we might be more inclined to keep up with these upgrades.
The delivery of the promised service pack for 2002 would also help restore our faith in MS's ability to deliver quality development tools. Right now it seems their only motivation is support for their technology du jour (.NET).
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That's right. VS .net 2002 Is really a great dev-tool, but some bugs are really sucking (intelli-sense crashes weekly).
Give me a service pack and i'm happy for future!
But when i see Borland C++ Builder? Yeah, VS. net is really bugfree *g*.
Excuse my english!
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Have not got my free upgrade in my academic licensing agreement yet...
John
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I am using VS.2003 primarily because ATL7 is really very good indeed, and the new C++ compiler is closer to what you'd expect nowadays. However, as an IDE it can be very frustrating to work with - I don't like the new look and feel very much - the sliding toolbars/panes require my hand to be on the mouse more than in VS6 and, quite frankly, I wish they had left the UI alone.
There are numerous bugs - and they are annoying enough to slow me down and make me want to throw my PC out the window. For example, using a solution containing projects that share filenames (MainFrm.cpp/MainFrm.h is a classic - I have projects where adding a Windows message handler will add the prototype to the correct MainFrm.h and the function to a MainFrm.cpp from another project. Marvellous). There is also a resource editing bug that means my .rc file can end up having the #defined symbols (e.g. ID_FILE_OPEN) replaced with the numeric IDs instead. How useful. Especially as when you then hit Alt+Enter to display the dubious new "ClassWizard" in order to add a WM_COMMAND handler and you see a list of numeric IDs instead of the definition. I am having to edit my .rc files by hand on a daily basis which is wasting my time.
I also get regular crashes - again often when resource editing - something that I am not used to quite frankly as VS6 was 100% reliable (and was from day one apart from the odd MFC-ism).
MFC7 also has it's problems - try getting an MFC7 app to run on Win95 - it requires a DLL (OLEACC) that isn't present. Yeh, there's a workaround, but even so...
So on the one hand I have got a new compiler that I like and ATL7 has been enhanced no end and on the other the development environment has been messed with to the extent that I end up ranting at the screen on a daily basis.
Here's hoping for a service pack soon!
The Rob Blog
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Robert Edward Caldecott wrote:
I also get regular crashes - again often when resource editing - something that I am not used to quite frankly as VS6 was 100% reliable (and was from day one apart from the odd MFC-ism).
Doh. VS6? 100% reliable? Every tried to open a bunch of bitmap files at once? Or edit a checked in resource file (bmp, html, etc)? Edit a HTML resource, compile, run and then - well, the HTML file is readonly in the editor for no reason. And quite a few more resource editor bugs come into my mind.
Not that VS.net would be any better here...
As you already mentioned, ATL and compiler are something to go for, but the rest just sucks. Ever tried to use both on VS6 ? 
Finally moved to Brazil
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I couldn't get to like the Wizards and Add-Ins in VS6 anyway and I've been coding C# quite a long time now. I don't think I've been more productive ever before. Ok, there are some flaws and sometimes anoying slow, but it does quite well overall.
Dynamic Help is actually the most useless feature ever.
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LangAl wrote:
Dynamic Help is actually the most useless feature ever.
I agree (at least, in VS.NET 2002.) The help in VS 6 was much better than it is now.
If your nose runs and your feet smell, then you're built upside down.
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Well, at least they're consistent...
every new version of Visual C++ the help system seems to get worse. VC4 was the best, then they really made it sh*tty by introducing HTML help and making it much slower.
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I also like the new IDE. The problem is MSDN. I can't find anything anymore without using Index or Search.
Dynamic Help is nice, though. At least for .NET applications, for native C++ I usually turn it off.
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Yep, but navigating through MSDN's been foul from the start. IMHO it's just more content you struggle to find now...
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The only thing I like less than dynamic help is this[^]. Dynamic help slows the IDE to a crawl as the stupid thing tries to find help topics for everything.
Software Zen: delete this;
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I am a VS.NET user  however, i do enjoy seing Don Box coding away on his emacs during his appresentations and seminars.... ughmmm...however i am too lazy to go back and remember all short-cuts, without short cuts you're can not really code in emacs...can you? 
Cheers,
Erick
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Emacs is nice. I can use borth Emacs and VS.NET. But weird things happen when you use VS.NET at work and Emacs at home. CTRL+Z in Emacs minimizes the window, and CTRL+S starts an incremental search in Emacs. I guess I could reconfigure all that, but I'm too lazy. 
--
Frivolous Theorem of Arithmetic: Almost all natural numbers are very, very, very large.
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I haven't really started using it yet, but so far it looks overall like an improvement.
I'll just make one comment:
When will MS cotton on that ALL dialog boxes should be resizable?
I mean we still have the project properties dialog with 1 inch wide edit boxes containing text of a 100 characters (in the case of my project)
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I'll agree with you, though after replacing "MS" with "All Windows Developers"...
Seriously, WTF?
Shog9
I returned and saw under the sun,
that the race is not to the swift,
nor the battle to the strong...
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The oh-so-popular current slogan says it all actually. In the ironic sort of way 
VS.NET gives less of everything. The usefull features from VS60 disappeared, the old addins won't work any more. On top of that it's much slower giving less time to do the actual work.
It doesn't accept the drag-and-drop of it's own project files telling the user politely to use the Open menu instead.
The code wizards are all other the place and often misleading, swapping the opened document windows forcing to search for the resource view again and again.
The help system got screwed even more this time (E.g. why would I want my MSDN favorites mixed up with other internet ones?).
The thing "upgrades" the VS.NET 2002 files into new format making it really hard to upgrade IDE smoothly.
The integration with Source Safe has quite a few issues on it's own, sometimes leading to hanging situation when it wrongly thinks there is a modal dialog displayed.
It crashes every now and then for no apparent reason.
One of the most annoying "features" is the micro-management of the code. The adding of the include statemnt with the ".\" preceding the include file name really ticks me off. The second-guessing of the HTML files content is actually dangerous as it can destroy a lot of the file if you're not paying attention. On some occasions the in-memory file image will go out of synch with the disk version generating bogus compilation errors. Only after a while one can see that IDE has inserted a duplicate of the code from another place in the same file...
And why can't I define my own output window backgound color?
On the good side I can only mention the line numbers and outlining display.
Probably the only thing that makes the work with VS.NET 2003 IDE possible at all is the Visual Assist installed. Without that VS.NET usability for developing code is close to the one of Notepad.
<center> </center>
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George wrote:
The code wizards are all other the place and often misleading, swapping the opened document windows forcing to search for the resource view again and again.
I would consider this a positive. VS 2002's wizards were screwed up too, and because of that, I was efficiently weaned me of the wizards. Life is so much better when you *don't* use the wizards and do your code manually.
(Of course, I don't use MFC anymore, either, except for maintenance and temporary projects. Perhaps that's why I needed to get away from wizards - they are useless anyway if you aren't using MFC or some other Microsoft framework they support.)
If your nose runs and your feet smell, then you're built upside down.
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I feel like a dinosaur, since I only have the original Visual Studio .NET (2002).
Can anyone give me a comparison of VS 2003 to VS 2002? Is it worth upgrading?
If your nose runs and your feet smell, then you're built upside down.
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Can you still download the dotnetfx 1.0 exe?
Cheers,
Simon
sig ::
"Don't try to be like Jackie. There is only one Jackie.... Study computers instead.", Jackie Chan on career choices.
article :: animation mechanics in SVG picture :: my first abstract photo
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SimonS wrote:
Can you still download the dotnetfx 1.0 exe?
It's still available at MSDN[^].
Regards
Thomas
Disclaimer:
Because of heavy processing requirements, we are currently using some of your unused brain capacity for backup processing. Please ignore any hallucinations, voices or unusual dreams you may experience. Please avoid concentration-intensive tasks until further notice. Thank you.
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Well I haven't used it all!
And feel no strong urge to either...
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire!
Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!
SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0
0 rows returned
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I wouldn't know either. I haven't upgraded yet. I'm not sure if it is really worth the effort yet.
Jeff Patterson
Programmers speak in Code.
http://www.anti-dmca.org[^]
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It took me a while to get used to after moving from VS6.
It does its job but....
It lacks polish, they gave us Dynamic Help (the most useless feature) but didn't give us ClassWizard (CTRL-W). That is what I miss the most, especially when adding variables to dialog controls.
Adding variables to dialogs is a pain, as it keeps switching to the source. Adding events has the same problem. (Unless I'm missing an option)
It doesn't have any of those cool refactoring features of other IDE's. (get/set generators and the such like)
Also it doesn't define margins so I don't know where column 80 is, making it a pain to write readable code.
I could go on about what it needs. Microsoft have given us something that does the job, it just doesn't do it as well as we'd like. Of course, MS never get it right in the first or second version... so here's hoping that VS.NET 2004 gives us what we want.
Michael
'War is at best barbarism...Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell.' - General William Sherman, 1879
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We're not @!$%#$ using yet, because we're in the middle of a development cycle, and can't risk changing compilers?
  
Software Zen: delete this;
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... "Just don't get me started..." option is for 
* Yes yes all you objectors, yes, I know it is not, just poking fun.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
Crikey! ain't life grand?
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