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But here is the deal: "I stop my car to refuel it."
You do that. Now imagine going down the road and having your car reboot itself... without your permission. I'm not quite sure what the argument is. Tell you what. Go into work and start unplugging peoples' computers and tell them it's for their own good. please post copies of your medical bills  .
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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But as the OP asked, is it appropriate to just reboot servers "because"?
Yes, it is. The world is full of Tao practitioners.
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You've never been employed as a server admin, have you?
Or if you have...I'm guessing exactly once and never again.
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Peter Adam wrote: Life is too short to wait for everyone to be in the right moment.
Sometimes, that's just not your call. A buddy of mine also worked for a large company; he was responsible for getting things patched, and sometimes, an upgrade and subsequent reboot required a sign-off from 8 different people agreeing on a time and date.
Peter Adam wrote: Maybe they are running critical infrastructure
They too
Sure, some admins are downright irresponsible and never apply patches. For a decade, exactly as one of your links points to.
But ultimately, patching/rebooting is the admin's responsibility; whoever makes a patch can't make those decisions on anyone else's behalf. That's what I'll object to and I'll fight this tooth and nail.
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charlieg wrote: No OS should ever just reboot itself
I can remember my surprise when running on a Solaris system when it would do a cold boot when I attempted to run Netscape. Every single time.
Pretty sure the OS and/or the hardware was in fact in charge of doing the cold boot.
Myself I design for failure. Boxes will go down. Doesn't matter why.
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that's a bug and I think you are going way, way back . It's annoying but completely different from a corporate policy that says FU.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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charlieg wrote: but completely different from a corporate policy that says FU.
Not at all.
Microsoft sells to consumers. It is nice and all that there is also a large scale professional server usage but that is not the primary market.
And as it has been proven with all OSes, not just Microsoft, people ignore updates. So now Microsoft is just forcing it.
Just to enforce that - linux has had multiple security bugs with patches already provided but which professionals failed to install until criminals started using them. Some of them were known for years.
Perhaps those same people that think the server should be up for years.
(I have worked for multiple companies where managing even certs is a problem. They know the cert will expire on a certain date yet every time there is a mad scramble the morning after it expires to figure out what is going on.)
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If I'm running a professional version of a product, why do I think I should be treated like a professional? The op did admit he's running server OS, but again, why do I need to write a utility to fool microsoft into thinking a computer is in use?
"people ignore updates"
Because Microsoft does two things: they write more security bugs then they should and they push out useless updates. Rebooting my machine, and all my VMs, because they insist I need a new feature is utter nonsense.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I haven't used Windows Server in years. But yeah, there was always supposed to be a reason to shutdown or reboot - even if there were updates. But, I've switched exclusively to Linux/Unix and will never in my life move back to Windows for a server. Unless I have to work for that is. Otherwise, nope.
Jeremy Falcon
modified 16-Nov-23 16:11pm.
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To be clear, it has nothing to do with server - this is a Microsoft cancer. I've had Windows 7 Pro, Windows 10 Pro, Windows 11 Pro (annoying OS), and though I update the registry, MS figures out a way to reboot things. I've lost VMs running month long soak tests, because I finally had to sleep. It's simply absurd.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Sounds like a pair of scissors may be the best alternative for you. The only problem is that then we won't have the opportunity to hear what came out of it.
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Fair comment. But some soak tests are doing network stuff. So, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. I'd be content with MS pestering me. I'm not sure how MS decides the computer is not in use. Keyboard activity? Mouse? It just makes no rational sense.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out — because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out — because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out — because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me — and there was no one left to speak for me.
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That's always been a great quote.
I fail however to understand how it applies here.
I am speaking out. Are you saying I should've spoken out sooner?
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You mean Windows servers have UPtime????
I usually reboot them every couple of days to make sure they are actually able to boot again
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hevisko wrote: I usually reboot them every couple of days to make sure they are actually able to boot again
There was a point in time where I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly.
But Windows has come a long way - even consumer editions. It's never had (so far) uptimes as long as it does nowadays, save for hardware failures (which in all fairness, no OS can survive) or bad drivers.
But we're not talking about hardware failures here; we're talking about the OS deciding to reboot itself on its own, without giving you the option to postpone as you wish.
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hevisko wrote: I usually reboot them every couple of days to make sure they are actually able to boot again
Standard large system support.
If one plans on doing dynamic sizing one needs to provide for boxes going up and going down due to load.
Netflix has a running application that takes deliberately takes servers down to test for system reliability. And you can use it to if you want.
Home - Chaos Monkey[^]
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They actually do. I have a Windows server that hosts an emulation system. It can easily stay up for a year or more.
BUT. if you choose to reboot, your decision. If I come into your cube and reboot your machine, I think we're going to have fisty cuffs
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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On our older (2012 etc) servers, the performance degrades as updates build up until, in the end, you are forced to reboot to keep using the machines (DC, SQL Server etc). I suspect this is a deliberate strategy to force you to update.
Only our desktop Windows machines reboot without warning. My win11 desktop restarted overnight last night, from within hibernation FFS! (Not the first time either...)
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Ah, the advantages of living in an area where the infrastructure (like power and broadband) are... unreliable.
At work the IT gestapo reboot your machine at will, fortunately after working hours. If you are on the company network it will happen. The power can be iffy as well. We have a massive generator for backup power, but it only runs our de-ionized water system. The offices can suck it.
Home is slightly different. Both power and Internet can be unreliable, mainly due to the weather. My town has major outages at least once a year, and minor ones a couple of times.
When I'm not actively using my machines, I've exited all apps except for my mail client (Outlook at work, Thunderbird at home). The boxes can reboot to their hearts content. I've always done this, because it's just safer. I don't see the value in having your development machine sitting there with a bunch of things running, breakpoints set, processes waiting. You're going to leave it like that at the end of the day and expect to remember all that context when you start again in the morning, or after a weekend? You're smarter folks than I am if you make that work. It's funny to me when people bitch about stuff like this when the solution is so utterly simple.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary Wheeler wrote: I don't see the value in having your development machine sitting there with a bunch of things running, breakpoints set, processes waiting. You're going to leave it like that at the end of the day and expect to remember all that context when you start again in the morning, or after a weekend? You're smarter folks than I am if you make that work
You have it exactly backwards.
It's because it's so hard to get it back into that state that I leave it on overnight. There's no chance I'll remember it all otherwise.
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Well my example was related to soak tests where we're collecting data and monitoring app performance. As for the debugger and what not - yes, picking up in the morning happens all the time where I work.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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cardinal or capital?
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Nelek wrote: cardinal or capital?
I deliberately chose "cardinal".
Interestingly, searching for "capital sin" on Wikipedia brings me to its page on the Seven Deadly Sins.
But searching on Wikipedia for "cardinal sin" brings me to a disambiguation page - and the Seven Deadly Sins page is one of the targets.
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