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Obviously it wasn't debugging.

I don't think before I open my mouth, I like to be as surprised a everyone else.
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In my copy of the Bible (in Hebrew), on the fifth day God created the sea creatures, the birds, and the "great crocodiles". On the sixth day, God created the land animals and man.

Fifth day: Genesis 1, 20-23
Sixth day: Genesis 1, 24-30

EDIT: off-by-one error. The change is between verses 23 and 24.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.

modified 5-Sep-23 3:53am.

I checked about a dozen English translations, including one called "Complete Jewish Bible" (Genesis 1 - The Beginning - In the beginning God - Bible Gateway[^]). The all agree with the three official translations from The Church of Norway (dated 1930, 1978 and 2011).

So I dug up the Online Hebrew Interlinear Bible[^] with both Hebrew and English text. I don't know a word of Hebrew, so I cannot tell if translation to English is a fake. But it clearly corresponds to all the English and Norwegian versions I have found: Man was created on the fifth day.

I am curious to hear whether your Hebrew Bible has a different (Hebrew) wording that the one presented here, or if the translations are not exact / correct. As you can see, the main column, the interlinear part, is sort of a word-by-word translation from Hebrew to English, while the narrow right column presents a flowing English text like what you might find in a standard English translation. (I have not checked which version they have used here, but the word-by-word translations may be more important to answer this question.)

Perhaps your confusion is because each day ends with "And there was an evening and a morning, the <X>th day." Any other reading would mean that Light and Darkness were created on the zeroth day.

This might fit our programming prejudices, but is not how "normal" people count.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.

So you are saying that "And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day" means that what happened before this happened on day six? That "morning, the sixth day" is declared after the work on day six, and the following evening?

Also, you see a day change between verse 22 and 23, even though there is no mention of any evening, morning or new day number in the text?

I have no hope of (or interest in) changing your beliefs. Besides, it matters nil to me if your belief is that there was a silent day change between verse 22 and 23. But most of all: If we go any further in this discussion, we will be thrown out of the lounge for discussing religious matter. As long as we were discussing the concrete wording of the Bible, it was factual matters (about the words, not about the religious implications).

As you did not respond to my quite explicit question to whether your Hebrew Bible corresponds or diverges from the Hebrew/English version I linked to, but rather starting turning around the order of things that the text describes. you signal that to you, the religious matters are so essential that you do not want to relate to the factual text contents, but rather turn the discussion from facts to beliefs. I will not follow you there.

If there happens to be others who can read a Hebrew Bible, and confirm or deny that their copy agrees with the one I referred to, and/or can confirm or deny that there is a day change between verse 22 and 23, I'd be very happy to know. But please, stick to the factual aspects, what the words say, and stay away from religious interpretations that is not founded on specific, referable wordings in the Bible text itself.

trønderen wrote:
Also, you see a day change between verse 22 and 23

Yes, I had an off-by-one error here, the change is between verses 23 and 24.

I did not mention beliefs in any way. All I can say is that this is the clear reading of the Hebrew text. The English text that you linked to gives a decent translation of the Hebrew, and this too supports my opinion, IMO.

All text in Genesis 1 is of the format "And God said ... And it was an Evening and a Morning, the Nth day". This is the equivalent in Modern English of saying "And God said ... And this was the end of the Nth day".

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.

OK, so on the first day he created the first day Smile | :)

I wouldn't be surprised if you are correct about the interpretation of the Hebrew "it was an evening and a morning, the Nth day" (note the order of 'evening' and 'morning') in a reversed way refers to the Nth day that has passed.

What would them be much more surprising is that the translators of the Norwegian Bible seem to be completely unaware of this. The Norwegian wording is unambiguous, it uses the evening and the morning in a way that leaves no doubt that they appear in that order, not turned around. The day number is equally unambiguously associated with the morning that follows after the evening.

I have talked with Norwegians who have studied the original scripts. They have indicated that time concepts, especially in Genesis, is very difficult to translate to Norwegian. So even though the translation is misleading, the translators may have been aware that it really is a misinterpretation. I am just surprised that it has been going on for a hundred years and more! (Before the 1930 Norwegian translation, we used the Danish translation. I do not know if the Danish bible is available on internet.) If they have been doing this for generations, it is probably to avoid breaking a tradition: The sun and the moon was created on the third day. Coming today, telling "Eeeh, it really wasn't until the fourth day", would not raise the general confidence in the religious leaders.

In Norway, and in the USA where I was living for a year in the Bible Belt, the majority of (Christian) church goers do not themselves read the Bible very much - they trust the priest to do that. (If they do any reading, it is from the New Testament, and those specific pages pointed out by the priest.) The dropout rate for the theology studies have been very high. A number of years ago, a study tried to identify the reasons for this. One of the major causes was that students coming from families actively practicing their religion (which is to say most of the students) where not prepared for what the Bible really says. Their childhood faith had been rosy romantic, with "adaptations" of the stories in ways that may cause children to love them, but is nevertheless dramatically distorted from the real story. A significant fraction of the students ended up with a feeling of having been fooled, been told lies about the real Bible. Some of them managed to build a new religious belief in the real Bible, while quite a few others dropped out not only of their studies, but of Christian belief.

Being a heathen, I am not one to urge kids to be immersed in religious texts. Yet, I sort of feel a greater respect for what I understand is common in Jewish culture: That kids are taught to read the real scriptures. I'd much rather have that than the rosy-romantic, but false, child adaptations created to seduce innocent kids who would be quite liable to reject Christianity totally if presented with the true story. (Norwegian anti-religious movements have had as their main weapon quoting the Bible. Nowadays, that job is done in Norway, so they are quoting the Koran in their fight against Islam.)

In Fortran day[1] is the first day
In C day[0] is the first day.
Can't recall all the other languages, but I remember when I first started using C, I made some errors here and there because of this day[0] = day 1
"All good programmers are off by one somewhere!"
Man was made day[5] = 6

"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger

modified 4-Sep-23 21:56pm.

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