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Slow Eddie wrote: I agree with you one hundred percent! the same can be said for, and is equally true about VB in ALL of it's forms from VB6 to the latest version of VB.net
Visual Basic was a revolutionary language that completely changed the programming landscape. I recall trying to develop GUIs prior to VB ... sheesh!
Look at the "popular languages" lists -- regardless of the ranking criteria, Classic VB is often still in the top 20. Personally, this surprises me, but it's oddly true.
Folks complain about the bad applications written in VB ... I've had to deal with far more crap code in C, C++, C#, and Java. As a mentor said, it's a poor craftsman who blames the tools for his lack of skill.
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I too love Access, for the right sort of jobs.
However the problem that I often see is when a non-programmer builds a simple solution with Access. At first, no big deal. But then over time, new functionality gets patched on, Now fast forward a few years, and you have this behemoth of an app, built with loads of spaghetti-style code, and no one really knows how it works anymore. Now they turn to the professional developers to fix things in it or add yet more functionality, and we are left with this Ball of Mud to sort out.
One company I worked with had one such Access DB, with multiple forms and reports, that had become crucial to their business over the course of almost 20 years of patching. They even had one-off versions with for one or two people with different formulas for estimations of pricing. And full of these little bugs that they wanted fixed. They thought upgrading to a new version of Access (they were still on Office 2003) would fix their problems....
Long story short - like any tool, you need to use it properly. Programming in Access is like programming in any other language, and needs some forethought for anything beyond trivial solutions.
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Andreas Mertens wrote: They even had one-off versions with for one or two people with different formulas for estimations of pricing
Ungh!!! That's Rough, Buddy!!!
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It was. It would be nice if you could easily put all of the code and forms into git or some other version control system
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Or have some more tables that help control when to display the estimates. Copying the MDB to change a formula is probably not the best way.
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I once wrote an entire management system for a school department in Access in one week while I had a severe flu that only gave me about four hours of coherence per day.
I wasted at least one whole day on a series of cascading drop downs for the most complicated screen. (I will blame that delay on delirium)
If you like Access, check out OutSystems. I think of it as a cloud hosted, multiuser super-Access.
Similar speed of development for simple CRUD apps.
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Further yay! Got Outlook talking to Access, so can now log sent (and in the future, received) emails as they are sent and received! Can even do basic templates for email lists, and fill in the addresses and salutations from Access as well, so it goes both ways!
The only issue is that Outlook locks up while sending emails, because it doesn't have a true method to trigger timer events so the main thread pretty much locks up.
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Access is like a utility car/van compared to the massive semitruck of SQL Server.
it has all the needs most people individuals or small groups of people will need.
not everyone needs dedicated server for connecting 3 tables
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Sorry, I lost interest when you said "This is not sarcasm ..."
Nothing succeeds like a budgie without teeth.
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You're probably better off using the free SQL Server express than Access. Also, Power BI is like Excel but with better and easier visualizations. With that said, MSN.com is really bad about censoring certain views on particular topics.
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Can you interact with Word, Excel, and Outlook as easily with Express? And, as I've asked elsewhere, can you create queries in Express as easily as you can with Access? The query YouTube vids I've seen indicate that SQL Express complex queries are at least an order of magnitude more difficult to design than they are in Access. And, as kmoorevs indicated, it doesn't keep the view the way you had it when you reopen the designer. Access looks like a work of art compared to that.
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I'm not disputing the power of Access, VBA et al.
For a given task or at least limited domain with a good plan it's powerful. The example you cited is the kind of thing it is most valuable for.
The problem I've encountered a number of times is really a chain of issues that happens predictably, and Access gets the most heat from this situation.
This is when powerful tools are readily available to users who happen to lack the training of a good database design, or application experience.
In all cases these were smart people, who were in a hurry and didn't recognize the complexity of the tasks they were undertaking.
The resulting issues blend and this pattern emerges in business and technical applications alike:
> User with a need creates an application on [insert toolset here] etc on the desktop
> The application fills the need nicely at first
> Sometimes other users with similar needs recognize the power of the solution and start to use it too
> All happens quietly without review or consideration from experienced IT staff or at least a knowledgeable Database expert.
> Everyone is happy for a while (months, years...) because it just works.
> Later we learn that the application is said to have run "really fast" when it was new.
> Over time users forgot that the application was created entirely by "Dave in Engineering" or "Lucy in Underwriting"
> Crisis happens - person/designer leaves | space runs out | computer fails
> No one knew that person/designer had to [Insert task here] (e.g. "clean out the tables every couple of months to keep it running", "add new configurations")
> No documentation, no source control, no backups
> "Hey Fix This!" and our response is "What IS this? How long have you been using this?"
I'm not exhagerating, and this pattern is my only real beef with Access.
The price is secondary, but I'd say that if any company is willing to pay the cost of an Access license they should also put money into basic database design training first. Of course then they may well realize that there are other great database options available.
Most problems in any domain are rooted in a failure to communicate.
<philibuster_off>
Cheers!
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This is exactly what I see happening to many of the no-code/low-code solutions being touted these days.
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For over 20 years, my company has offered a choice on database options, Access or SQL Server for most of our desktop apps. For either smaller (< 20 sites) or single-user customers, Access makes perfect sense. While there are some slight differences in syntax, 99% of the same sql queries will work in either one. A nice thing about this (and something we do all the time) is that while I'm on a remote/support call I can downsize a customer's sql database, upload it, download it on my end, hook it up and troubleshoot right away.
I also use Access for personal projects where portability is required...databases reside on an external drive.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
"Hope is contagious"
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I still use Office 2010 and Visual Studio with the Office developer stuff installed.
Sometimes being able to build what is essentially a windows forms app, but uses a word doc for it's interface instead of a clunky win32 standard frame is great.
Never needed to upgrade, bought a permanent copy and I intend to keep using it as long as my OS allows it, and since I'm on W10, have no desire to jump to the W11 gravy train even once it runs out of support, and since it all still works perfectly....
I'm pretty much sorted...
But yes, you can do some insanely clever office based stuff, but it's not new and full of hot sexiness.... so no one cares anymore 
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I just got out of the hospital after 4 days (medical condition occasionally causes me to get a little crazy), and I think I discovered a time machine. I totally lost track of time because they were taking blood every 4 hours, getting vitals at all hours, and shoving pills at me 24 hours a day. I never got more than 4 hours sleep a day. Due to this, I felt that I was there for over a week - turns out it was only 4 days.
Thar's only two possibilities: Thar is life out there in the universe which is smarter than we are, or we're the most intelligent life in the universe. Either way, it's a mighty sobering thought. (Porkypine - via Walt Kelly)
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Quote: It sounds plausible enough tonight, but wait until tomorrow. Wait for the common sense of the morning.
H.G. Wells, The Time Machine
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I understand. A couple of years ago I made time stop for weeks.
I had some dental surgery, and the doctor over-stretched the muscles on the right side of my jaw. The resulting case of trismus (lockjaw)[^], wasn't bad enough; it triggered the worst migraine I've ever had. I ran out of my normal migraine meds, and the surgeon couldn't prescribe anything that would help. I spent ten days in bed, the last four without eating.
When it finally let up, I couldn't believe it had been only ten days. What a way to lose 12 pounds  .
Software Zen: delete this;
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I feel your pain. a long time ago I had the migraine headache problem, (turns out I had viral meningitis that caused it.) took 4 different doctors sequentially, to figure it out.
One of them prescribed Percodan, now outlawed, and it helped for several hours. Immediately after taking one. I would see a shimmering haze, and the pain would go away for 3 to 4 hours.
Don't even talk to me about dentists! 
Every hospital, doctor's office, and dentist's office should have a sign over the door that reads "Abandon all of your dignity, and most of your hope, you that enter here"
Ed
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4 doctors… I am glad you did not give up.
What did the (dumb) neurologist say?
“Well, after X years of never having a migraine, ever, you just got your first one! Try this cocktail of drugs.”
I heard that once when my wife had a blocked carotid artery which was the source of her headache.
I have met a single, smart neurologist, but I consider that the exception.
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I understand, personally I teleported once!
Funnily enough I too was sick, went down the stair for something, and when about to climb up, I sighed at the upcoming exercise and.. suddenly I was upstairs! 
Never could do it again... 😕
modified 19-Feb-22 13:20pm.
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When they do that to prisoners, it's treated as torture. 
Glad you're feeling better.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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stoneyowl2 wrote: taking blood every 4 hours
stoneyowl2 wrote: I never got more than 4 hours sleep a day
stoneyowl2 wrote: turns out it was only 4 days
5 days at Ellis Hospital, Upstate NY. I have diabetes. I somehow developed an infection in my right elbow that caused me to have a 6.5 hour emergency surgery to save my right arm.
They did save my arm, but I only have 80% usage of it, and can't carry anything over 30 pounds with it. Good enough to code with and that is all I need really.
With that said, they took blood 4-5 times a day from me, for 5 days, trying to figure out the infection and what may have caused it. They still don't know to this day. Weird. Aliens??
I did not get much sleep in that 5 days. Also, having a nurse sponge bathe me in the middle of the night is not fun either, although you would think so.
Glad you are out of the hospital and on the mend, I hope. 
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Having a major de**ist phobia (can't even type the word!) I've had IV sedation 3 times now. Last time was last Wednesday. It's bizarre - I remember everything up to chatting with the anaesthetist. Then - nothing - until the car journey home. The thing is, I'm not unconscious, it's not like a GA. I can see, hear, respond to requests but apparently am entirely chilled out. There are stairs down from the surgery and I navigate them just fine, apparently. I just don't remember a single thing; and so quick - like turning the light on and off.
(Bloody expensive though!)
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