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Member 14971499 wrote: I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree.
It happens to all. I lost 2 semesters due to that because I had the impression of "not learning that much" and hence I thought "I am not going to pass" and wanted to avoid wasting one of my 3 chances to do the exam.
Member 14971499 wrote: This feeling that I have to reschool myself again and again to stay in this business makes me sick
That's going to happen anyways, you will need to continue learning the whole life if you want to stay "on edge", even if you only specialice in C# there is new things coming constantly, so you need to keep up-to-date
Member 14971499 wrote: I really enjoy programming and it seems like I have predispositions to do this job
that's the most important thing
Member 14971499 wrote: but I feel this software engineering is crazy (!)
have you not been lurking here? That should be pretty obvious looking at some of us  
Member 14971499 wrote: If I would study that much for example medical degree I already would be a doctor and at least I would know that I can do my job after these years of studying
No way... not even possible to compare. And I know what I say, my wife is dr. med.
Member 14971499 wrote: If I work as a programmer, I have to go back home and read another tutorial of another new language and another framework, and study another new technology, another field of CS, becuase if I don't I can't do my job anymore
That's not really true. Because the most important is not all what you know. The most important is the set of skills.
It is impossible to know about all. There is a lot of damned good programmers here and even they can't keep track on everything.
And additionally, depending on the company you are probably not going to do the same over and over again, so you will need to adapt on the fly.
And that's what is really important. The ability to learn by yourself, to think analytically, to understand processes, to see / to find logic in things, to be creative searching for solutions...
My technical knowledge is pretty average, on the one side, because I forget things when I don't use them and on the other hand because I think it is better to be apprentice of many things that master on one thing.
But careful, I am not telling you only need to learn "enough" to accomplish the requirements of a task.
I am telling that, if you have to do something, try to give your best, not only for the project but to be proud of your work. That will imply to learn about the topic of the day and with time will come experience. That is what matters.
Member 14971499 wrote: I feel like Neo, trapped in matrix and don't have any contact with the real world.I became even more socialy backward
That's something you really have to try to avoid. We all are more or less socially restrained but only because you can meet people personally, it doesn't mean you can't have social contacts.
You need balance, if not you are going to get burned out before even getting started.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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well... with the current pandemic many people have no life! 
if you don't find this enjoyable while studying, perhaps it's not for you?
I always find programming easy! ^_^
(to be fair I didnt study IT, I have a Physics PhD instead, and was enjoying doing numerical simulation of physical system...)
Programming is a bit addictive I found... BUt then you are nothing like trapped, if you give in to the addiction you quickly master you subject so well than you can take any brwak you like! 
If it's not the case, perhaps it's not for you...
Other than that, yeah for easily 20 years I had the feeling there was always much I needed to learn and known... but now I am finally on the other side.. I still have to learn, but it's no biggie most time! ^_^
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At the risk of sounding harsh, I don't think many of us "have a life" any more. I haven't "met with friends" for a very long time, but it's nothing to do with IT. I expect 90% of the world population is asking questions like "what's it all for?", "why do I work so hard?" when there's precious little way to enjoy the fruits of our labours.
I'm semi-retired (trying to be more so) but yes, for me, working 3 hours a day is also "resting". I would say before retirement, an 8-hour day was also an "easy" day, and back when in college (not IT) again, an 8-hour study day is an easy day.
And as Nelek says, if you don't like study / learning then working in IT is not for you. If I'd not continuously been studying and learning, I'd still be writing out Cobol instructions on coding sheets and waiting for the punch girls to enter it onto the cards.
Oh, and 14971499, do change your username to something a bit more memorable!  Good luck - but it's up to you to decide if you want to persevere or give up and, [desperately trying to think of a job that doesn't require ongoing learning]... sweep the streets?
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First of all, software is competitive. My husband is in nursing school and its even more competitive than that. Some fields are just like that - you either have to be hungry for it, or it will eat you instead.
Second, and this is personal - not universal - but I don't know how far someone can get either in this field or in another highly competitive field if they don't love doing it. If you feel trapped is it just because you're currently overwhelmed or is it because you're not enjoying the craft? Sort that question out for yourself. Figure out the "why" of you feeling trapped, because the why is so important here.
It seems like - based on my takeaway - that you the love the craft, but your current situation is overwhelming you. My suggestion is - if the stress is making you sick try to reorganize what's left of your life to give you some downtime, and if that isn't working or possible, maybe get a therapist, but do whatever you must to tough it out *and* take care of yourself at the same time. Life gets hard, but that makes us or breaks us. Don't let it break you, or force you into making choices you'll regret later. And don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it.
Also don't be afraid to act decisively - if you need to get out of the field - even if only for awhile, get out. I have. But don't act from a place of fear or anger and you're less likely to regret the decision.
Don't worry so much about social isolation. Your formative years are mostly behind you. If you already were socially awkward (welcome to our club! ) you're going to stay that way, and if you weren't, software won't change that. I've known a few extremely sociable developers in the field. The extroverted ones are less common, but the field doesn't turn them into social rejects. They usually wind up being the de facto liason between the software team and management, and because of that can often find themselves becoming lead devs, and sometimes even CTOs (and awesome CTOs at that, in my experience)
Just my $0.02
Real programmers use butterflies
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Having a life is overrated.
I'm curious, are you employed and doing a CS degree at the same time ? or just at school and trying to learn new technologies at the same time ?
Me think you have a time management issue.
I'd Skip or try to limit trying to "to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree"
Focus on your studies; do as much as you can to get good grades.
I'd rather be phishing!
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Member 14971499 wrote: Because if I get kicked out of the school and can't program either, than it's over for me
No, it isn't. You can always learn on your own, not necessarily in college.
But having the degree helps to get your first job, so concentrate in passing your exams with the best mark you can get without risking your mental health.
Once you get out and get into the real world you will have to learn many things again, because the "academical" programming and the "real-world" programming not always are that similar.
Companies are not dumb, if they hire you as a junior developer they won't expect you to be a DevOps or any guru knowing 10 different techonlogies and being able to write an App in a day.
Don't stress too much for the whole future, just go one step after another, and right now, you are in college.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Thanks That was encouraging.
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
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I got myself a PhD in Computer Science back when punch cards and magnetic tapes were the norm. It is almost totally out of date as far as languages and hardware is concerned but every now and then I use techniques I learned which are still applicable to do the job these days. Almost all my skills have come from "on the job learning" through necessity and relevance at the time. This is the norm these days and I think, just my opinion, that constantly studying for various bits of paper with letters on them is mostly misdirected effort. However, I already have the 40 years of experience that makes me eminently eligible for employment as a senior developer, no one looks for paper qualifications when I have applied for jobs in the last 10 to 20 years; but to get that first position, maybe you need some. I don't know where I am going with this and have lost track of the point I wanted to make ...but you don't have to learn stuff just because it is new and fashionable. Solid skills in keys areas should normally be enough. For example, if you know JavaScript and jQuery you don't necessarily have to learn React or all the dozens of other fly-by-night frameworks.
Good luck anyway, being keen on programming is the most important thing.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Thank's for advice Yeah, I think I want to learn too many things at the same time out of fear that I'm not going to get a job 
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
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Member 14971499 wrote: Yeah, I think I want to learn too many things at the same time out of fear
And that's exactly what might trigger exactly that result.
My father always told me... the more you envelope, the less you squeeze.
A.k.a. if you try to do many things at the same time, you won't do anyone properly. Focus on what you have to do now, and leave the rest for later. You will have plenty of time to learn what is not in your subjects.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Quote: Focus on what you have to do now, and leave the rest for later.
I agree completely.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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The problem can be solved by going to the mirror and staring it in the face.
One of the things about growing up is learning to take control of your life (in so far as possible) and that include not only washing and feeding yourself but finding what things give you pleasure.
One of the pleasures I'd hope you had learned is that, no matter how much you enjoy something you need other things if, for no other reason, than to look forward to getting back to them.
You can make your own prisons - that's the easy way out.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Thank's for the reply You have a good point.
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
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Member 14971499 wrote: I feel also this constant pressure to learn things above the school curriculum to stay relevant on the market because I don't feel like I'm going to be able to do my job after I get my degree
The first thing I learned after graduating is that no matter what is taught, the world will have moved on. It's really the nature of this field. And yet here I am, over a quarter of a century later, still doing it and learning new stuff as I go along.
Don't tell yourself you have to know everything to succeed in this field. Learn what they're teaching, but perhaps more importantly "learn how to learn". As someone who's been asked to review resumes and conduct interviews (as much as I hate that) I don't even want to talk to someone fresh out of school who tries his best to know it all - that just won't fly. Rather, if you can demonstrate you know the basics that are expected, and you can learn and adapt, you're in a much better position than burning yourself out before you've even started.
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Thank's for your reply
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
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When you realize that all this stuff was made up by other people, and some at least not as smart as you, it gets easier.
Study smarter, not harder. Take any subject, of the 20 or so books on the subject, only a few are worth picking up (if at all). That goes for videos and tutorials.
You have to be discriminating. Even the books that get assigned can be shite ... just remember to parrot what the prof says (whether you agree or not) while "learning".
And you don't have to "learn" it all ... The best skill is knowing how to "find" it, when you need it. (Most of ones that frequent Q&A never got that part ... or just lazy / entitled)
The biggest fail of the system is "closed book exams" IMO; unless you work in ER or crashing a plane. Closed books is not reality.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Thank's for your reply I will keep your advices in mind
Gerry Schmitz wrote: The biggest fail of the system is "closed book exams" IMO; unless you work in ER or crashing a plane
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
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Member - suck it up.
I mean that in an encouraging way. You are in school and they are trying to wash you out. When I started I had 300+ in my class, 52 graduated in 4 years.
Suck it up. You do have *no* life. Focus on the prize. The skills when the python virtuoso has no idea how to code up a line. Don't worry about it. Been in the business 40 years. Seen them flaming out - they look pretty in the sky 
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
modified 16-Feb-21 23:24pm.
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charlieg wrote: When I started I had 300+ in my class, 52 graduated in 4 years.
 Wow...
I'm lucky that my college is much more forgiving. Besides, you had to be really skilled to be among those 52.
charlieg wrote: The skills when the python virtuoso has no idea how to code up a line.
hahaha 
charlieg wrote: Don't worry about it. Been in the business 40 years.
Wow, that is really long time Thank's for encouragment
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
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You gave me really good advices here 
They can study for 10 hours a day and more. They are my role models. I wish I could be as hard working as them, but I only managed do a session like that for a dya and I was burn out the next day. I don't know how they do it. Do they do drugs or something? 
I'm always this student who loves to learn everything that isn't related to my school curriculum. When we study algorithms in school, I want to study GUI, when we study GUI, I want to study algorithms, when we program backend, I want to program frontend 
I never was a top student, I was bad student but hard working. Now, I'm neither excelling anyone in grades or my hard work and I feel like my special skill is gone and there's nothing left 
