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OriginalGriff wrote: There are times when I feel the gene pool could use some chlorine ...
didn't you want to say clorhidric acid?
M.D.V. 
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No, I can't even pronounce that, let alone buy it ... 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I think you meant "Chloric acid", and no, the gene pool can do quite well without it. 
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Daniel Pfeffer wrote: I think you meant "Chloric acid"
Not sure. In Spanish we have "ácido clórico" (HClO3) and "ácido Clorhídrico" (HCl)
I meant the second one. If I got the translation wrong, then I stand corrected.
M.D.V.
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I was wrong, too. In English, HCl is Hydrochloric Acid. 
HClO3 is Chloric Acid.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Daniel Pfeffer wrote: HCl is Hydrochloric Acid.
Interesting. I did a check in google and my version was identified / suggested in the search bar, I supposed it was right.
Clicking on search, there is a high number of site titles with you option.
But I found this:
chlorhydric acid[^]
Looks like "Hydrochloric acid" is the official name (and the most extended one) but "chlorhydric acid" (I wrote it wrongly in the previous message) is accepted as a synonym too.
M.D.V.
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Not to worry . . . Chloric acid is extremely unstable and will likely blow the owner to itty bitty pieces almost immediately. It's sister, Perchloric acid (HCLO4 is stable enough to keep in bottles - also highly explosive on its own. Something I've actually worked with. It makes an insoluble potassium salt (rather rare) and is a very strong oxidizing acid - used to "fume" things, i.e., break them down chemically by boiling them in the acid. If something organic falls in during this process, well, it tends to crumble things when it goes off with astounding violence. Salts of both of these are common fireworks ingredients. Shock sensitive, although you usually need a hammer (unless mixed with red phosphorus as in matches).
Hydrochloric acid (HCL)? Who's got a stomach to handle that? Actually, all of us - diluted quite a bit it's the acid in your stomach used for digestion. Concentrated (=37% 12.0 molar) is how it's sold. One of the strongest acids known - but I'm sorry to say it doesn't work like acid in the movies. Not at all. Acid strength is based upon degree of ionization in solution and this stuff is about 100% ionized.
Way more than you need to know but it brought back my very early youth, when I used to make my own fireworks.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Thank you for the info.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Hydrochloric acid (HCL)? Who's got a stomach to handle that? Actually, all of us - diluted quite a bit it's the acid in your stomach used for digestion.
That's something I still remembered from the biology lessons.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: One of the strongest acids known
I knew it, that's why I "suggested" it, but... I might have thought wrongly (based on your following comment)
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: but I'm sorry to say it doesn't work like acid in the movies. Not at all. Acid strength is based upon degree of ionization in solution and this stuff is about 100% ionized.
I don't know exactly what you mean, care to expand?
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Way more than you need to know
I don't mind learning new things in "conversations". Thanks
M.D.V.
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OK. Any complaints about these lessons is "on you !"
Stomach protects itself - prostaglandin 1 if I recall correctly. Without it, you would slowly digest your own stomach. Many NSAID's (like aspirin, but NOT acetaminophen) have a side effect of suppressing your prostaglandins and that's how chronic use can end up giving you ulcers. It's not the aspirin, an extremely weak acid, that does the damage (at least not directly).
Although it doesn't have to be water, acid strength is typically considered how completely the acid ionizes in water. That is, HCL become H+ and Cl- when in aqueous solution. There is no HCL left. This is facilitated by water being very polar. Water is a bent molecule (CO2 is straight). Because it is bent, the local charges are asymmetric on the molecule even though it's net neutral. Like a magnet, in a way, it has poles (hence "polar"). The O in H2O holds the more negative charge, the H's, the more positive charge. They can thus "solvate" ionic species and stabilize their charge. It is for this same reason that salt (NaCl) dissolves in water and is only in existence as Na+ and Cl-. Solvation is a pretty powerful force as it has to, in the case of salt, break up the the salt crystal lattice. (At this point, it gets more complicated as we would talk about Gibbs vs Helmholtz free Energies and Entropy). Anyway, it's for this same reason oil and water don't mix: the water molecules are attracted to one another rather strongly and will not let the oil molecules intervene. Intermediate substances, such as alcohols are polar. Small molecules, such as methanol, ethanol, and propanol are polar enough where entropy will make the totally miscible with water. The randomization of the molecules overcomes the mutual attraction. Longer chain alcohols are not totally miscible (but are soluble) with water, less and less so as the organic part dominates its properties. Soap . . . a magic substance (look up micelles) ! Note, back to the original topic, if you were to dissolve HCL in something totally non-polar, like hexane, then it would not be ionized.
Other definitions of acid in other contexts:
Bronsted Acid: Based upon the ability of a substance to "donate" or "accept" protons (H+)
Lewis Acid: Based upon the substance's ability to donate or accept electrons
There are other definitions for other contexts - these two are often relevant in Organic chemistry.
Anyway, that's more than enough for now. And then some
"solvate" implies they surround the charged particle (ion) and diffuse it's charge and thus stabilize it.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I remembered a couple of things, others were totally new for me. Thank you.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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If anyone's pulling out the chloric acid, I'll be over there --->
hiding in a steel reinforced bunker.
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OriginalGriff wrote: There are times when I feel the gene pool could use some chlorine
Didn't Trump already try that? Hey guys, drink bleach to protect yourself from the virus! 
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� Forogar � wrote: so we are stuck with millions of idiots
74+ million by chance?
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Actually, just morons looking for someone else to blame their failure upon.
As their deity would describe them: Losers!
But really, who else would losers follow, and who else would depend upon losers for a following? See, the world is amazingly orderly in its design.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Gosh, I never knew so many of my friends were morons and losers. Thanks for clueing me in. 
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MKJCP wrote: Gosh, I never knew so many of my friends were morons and losers. Thanks for clueing me in.
This appears to be a very appropriate time to remind you of that well known axiom of behavior:
"Birds of a feather flock together"
You are encouraged to "read into that" !
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I understand it feels good to demean. There has been so much of it lately.
As Gandhi said, anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding. Good luck with your path.
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My path is not that of Gandhi - that was HIS path.
Mine is to try, however hard, to see the humor in our existence rather than descend into it's pathos.
Let me give you another philosopher's thoughts - not quite the same flavor yet real it encompasses Gandhi and Nietzsche, Vonnegut and Lennon:
"I'm the one that has to die when it's my time to die" - Jimi Hendrix
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Exactly. My point was that your path is NOT that of Gandhi. That's OK. Everyone chooses for themselves.
I share your point of view on humor in our existence.
So did George Carlin. I wish he was around to provide some commentary on our current world. Some of his thoughts were timeless though.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." - GC
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Talking of birds and flocks ...
May I recommend Charlotte Hemelrijk: The collective motion of flocks of birds[^] - a 30 minute 'Science & Cocktails' talk about the stepwise development of a simulation model of the movements of a flock of starlings. If I were teaching simulation to Comp.Sci students, I would certainly refer the students to this presentation, as an excellent example of how to model a physical phenomenon!
The Science & Cocktails presentations are great!
(The family name of the speaker seems appropriate when she talks about flocks of starlings  )
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trønderen wrote: I would certainly refer the students to this presentation, as an excellent example of how to model a physical phenomenon!
Yipes. Another trip to my youth earlier days in real life.
I modeled surface chemistry, in particular nearest neighbor interactions of adsorbates, on transition metal surfaces. Monte-Carlo simulation. As it turned out, it explained phenomena oft seen but not yet explained (per one of the referees of the publication). Actually, a big enough deal of an idea, that, had I know in graduate school that I'd have such an idea I would have tried to get an academic position. As an aside: the model was proven experimentally.
Practical Application: Induced Surface Ensembles on Transition Metal Surfaces. Applied to catalytic process (like petroleum chemistry) it would greatly improve efficiency of the reactions. US Gov't, my employer at the time, patented it.
Oh my ! What could have been!
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Now that's not nice. The democrats just want a better world. 
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� Forogar � wrote: millions of idiots
One man's idiot is another man's genius. 
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So let's just remove warning labels off all products and let nature run its course.
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