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Here's the kicker not generally considered:
People, like us, here (in the CP Lounge, of course) see these as more or less template driven websites (don't we already have that?) and there certainly seems to be a threat.
Except for one small thing:
And that small thing is the aptitude of these people to even thing about doing anything in the least bit technical. Damn - they have a hard to doing arithmetic. If there sites' to be more than a personal FauxBook then they'll need connectivity and such. Knowing what to store. Knowing what to retrieve. Etc etc etc.
My experience has found most people dumb as stick when it comes to doing anything beyond fondling their cell phones and calling themselves tech-savvy.
Boilerplate websites are already readily available and free - they don't concern me in the least. The only business I'd suspect will be lost is that craved by those hacks, slightly higher on the food chain, who had been their 'contractor' for website building.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: My experience has found most people dumb as stick when it comes to doing anything beyond fondling their cell phones and calling themselves tech-savvy.
How arrogant! These are poor ill people who need a brain pacemaker. Without it they would be reduced to mental vegetables.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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You're absolutely right. I have a (very good) client who runs a successful small business (successful in part 'cos I built a bespoke application for them a few years ago, moving them off a creaking Excel-based "system"). Recently we needed to get him signed up to a new hosting provider. It was one I was familiar with, knew the signup, and so wrote a 4-bullet-point step-by-step guide to signing up. (Click this button, choose that service level, click OK, enter your payment details... literally that easy).
I got the reply back within about half an hour - "I'm not really that technical - can you do it please" accompanied by full details of the company credit card.
Some people are terrified of anything to do with technology - maybe perhaps only in a "work" context, but that's enough - for us.
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It is even better. They are not stupid but a lot of people don't care. They just want a website, they don't want to know the details. That is why loads of companies and "influencers" have FB page or profile. Then one step up and there is already market for people maintaining FB/Social media profiles.
There is a lot of business owners who for example don't want to fill in their profile to get insurances, bank accounts, they just want to call someone at the bank and 'have it done!'.
I believe there will be even more work for developers because of low code platforms. Keep in mind all custom integrations that still will be needed just because low code platform flavor of the month won't support something they need.
Take into account all the IoT, industrial automation and tooling to keep it all running, no single low code platform will able to support everything. There you need developers to pump data from one low code platform to the other and to some devices and what not... I just have seen to much weird stuff and I know what is the cost to support things and integrations.
Last one - look at tech gigants they hire loads of devs and if they could build low code platform for themselves they would already do that. What are they doing? They are creating frameworks and libraries for devs. If low code would be such a great business, FAANG would buy low code companies left and right. In my opinon low code is maintenance/support nightmare that does not scale and that is why it is better to provide developer tools and infrastructure.
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No, it won't.
The bigger issue at hand is the world is pushing STEM and technology on EVERYONE, and the majority of people that try it, fail, and fail miserably. They are unable to grok it, let alone implement it for a living.
So, now they are trying to come up with technologies where the masses can do technology, without technology.
This will fail and fail big time. Our jobs are not in jeopardy. Don't feed the job monster. Everyone is going to be alright.
Also, pushing the need for the entire world to be proficient at technology is un-realistic, and 100% politically motivated on every level.
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I remember when everyone was going to get rich raising Chinchillas. Or selling someone else's stuff (e.g. web templates).
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Ok with great skepticism, I tried it. i put on my small business technophobe hat and set out to recreate the web app I have running in the debugger right now.
Nope. I got confused from the get go.
Try as they might they will NEVER replace the programmer.
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We've heard these arguments before when Machine Code was supplanted by Assembler; when Assembler (1st Generation) was (unsuccessfully) replaced by AutoCoders; then (more successfully) by programming languages (c1957) such as Fortran, Algol and LISP (3rd generation), then by so called 4th Generation tools such as IDEs, Report Generators, etc (c1980), and very unsuccessfully by the Japanese 5th Generation project (again, 1980s).
What happens is that the newer ways of working are disdained by existing programmers until they realise that the newer idioms just enable them to code their designs more quickly in a clearer to read and modify syntax.
I admit that I have not looked at the new no-code / low-code languages, but my guess will be that traditional programmers will not like them until they try them and find that they make the coding part easier but that the real skill (designing robust algorithms and data structures) still persist.
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I think it depends on the contexts of the systems these sort of no-code environments are meant to replace. A lot of companies with in-house software have had the web applications designed in a way that's very specific and integrated into business requirements, and a lot of the no-code alternatives simply don't have support for a lot of the back-end logistics.
I work for a company specialising in fuel cards, and the in-house software we develop (a web application) is enormous, but specifically we integrate with APIs for different fuel card providers (Shell, BP, etc.) which are enormously complex and simply couldn't be accomplished with a no-code system. Our business looked at replacing our software with several generic CRM packages, but each time they realised that the compatibility and complexity just wasn't there.
Unless these no-code environments can provide hugely customisable and complex operations, I don't think there'll be much cause for concern for developers in companies with established systems. It's probably cheaper to maintain the existing systems and have developers augment them than to purchase a whole new system, build it from the ground-up and then have new systems developed which implement the missing features, as well as training staff on how to use and build the no-code platform.
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Chris Copeland wrote: A lot of companies with in-house software have had the web applications designed in a way that's very specific and integrated into business requirements
Chris Copeland wrote: can provide hugely customisable and complex operations,
Exactly.
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First, it's yahoo finance. Second, no.
As others have pointed out, there is still the fundamental foundation of what drives these engines. About 25-30 years ago, I was doing X Windows development. I had some exposure to a Windows program, and I was simply appalled at how you handled event handling. Along that time, Power Builder came along, and I was impressed with how easy it was to build applications. The improvement in productivity was noticable, and when I voiced my concerns about getting put out of business, the tech laughed and said:
"We've found that when you use a tool like this, the users want more and more. Your work load will go up."
Truth. I see low code and no code environments affecting some applications. But nothing earth shattering.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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COBOL jobs are on the decline!? The sky must be falling.
Only, no. Some COBOL salaries are outrageous now because even though there are few jobs, there are even fewer folks to fill them. Want to take your legacy system to the cloud? Good luck on your hunt for a COBOL + cloud guy. Maybe you can just use Bubble.
No. No, programming jobs won't be disappearing, they won't be doing anything but growing both in number and scope for the next 20-50 years. Erik Brynjolfsson hit the nail far more squarely on the head.
The specifics of what problem you solve with the code you write? Sure. That will change, even regardless of no-code/low-code.
But you think no-code/low-code will supplant the need for developers? Want to buy a bridge? Lol.
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Sure, just like Plug-and-Play put a lot of system administrators out of work (I was warned about this in 1990, when I was a sysadmin). Spoiler alert: It didn't!
Da Bomb
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Meh, many technologies have been and gone, the world is swamped with crappy systems built by people without an IT background, and yet here I still am...
I've even used a couple of these "anyone can build" systems to deliver basic systems to customers and whilst for the most basic of IO, these where fine, it still took something extra to turn it into something really good.
There will always be a place for a highly skilled software developer, who knows the underlying systems inside and out. There will always be the person who either does not have the time or can not work out WYSIWYG system builders and so will hire someone to build it for them.
I simply see this as a change in the tools, not the people. I means once upon a time, we coded websites in notepad, and things like dreamweaver was going to be the death of the web developer.
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I want to thank everyone who replied to my message. I feel much better today after reading your advices and feel less emotional and more calm. It was really nice of you, even you who argued with me. It was mindchanging 
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
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I don't believe I've seen a post that received more responses than yours. 
And I'm pleased that you found the experience, overall, to be positive.
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Apple Has More Bad News For iPhone 12 Owners[^]
Smaller battery and it uses more power? Odd choice really ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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A minor defence here is that Apple is optimising 5G access so that it hits the energy consuming 5G when needed, and falls back to 4G at other times. Unless you're sitting on 5G for hours, it shouldn't consume more. Further, the new chips are more energy efficient which offsets this a little.
Even so, battery life is down an hour on some models. Video playback is down 1hr to 17hrs for the 12 Pro, but apart from that battery life seems about the same at a practical level.
Time will tell, though.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: Video playback is down 1hr
Now I don't do anything on my (no Apple) flip phone but make occasional phone calls. I even have a wrist watch so it's not my on-the-road clock.
That being said, battery life decays with time until it reaches a critical lever for the consumer where they need to buy a new one because it's too inconvenient. That will happen sooner now - and a potential 5% or so sooner (for a company that demands you only patronize them) will be quite a bit of money.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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That, too, gets mitigated by smart charging (they charge only to 80% then give it the full top up at the point they learn you'll most likely need it)
Again, not perfect but in practice it may actually be hard to discern. Is the video playback decrease due to a smaller battery or the higher resolution of the screen?
Besides, how dare you suggest upgrading our phones every year to have the latest and greatest is a Bad Thing! They recycle...stuff. And use solar panels. And Stuff... Surely that will keep me out of The Bad Place?
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: Surely that will keep me out of The Bad Place?
There are easier ways to avoid going to Detroit ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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...and Tim Cook goes, "peeeeerfect, what's the problem?"
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Chris Maunder wrote: Apple is optimising 5G access so that it hits the energy consuming 5G when needed, and falls back to 4G at other times
Isn't that how it's been working since always 3G.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger
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Hey - I just read the marketing slides. You're not suggesting they are presenting favourable statements out of context and recasting attempts to catch up or repurpose technologies into a message of innovation and forward thinking?
cheers
Chris Maunder
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