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No - not the self appointed ones. We're talking patronage and cronyism.
For example, in the US, today, the appointed head(s) of some governmental departments are people who spent their careers fighting that(those) departments. Progress rolled back to increase profits. Public good and long term planning be damned.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I'm not sure what is worse. What you describe or people who get in there and treat it as their little fiefdom / kingdom and act as if they are GOD himself.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Actually, what you say is part of the story. Sometimes in the background - in the view of supporters without the need to say it outright by the leader. Basically, though, when someone keeps declaring themselves and their deeds as "Perfect" - we can tend to think the implication of deity is there.
Somehow a mixture of "1984" double-think and that "Cult of Personality" song have moved in on us - supported by that staunch and every ready defender of the all that is good:
"The Armies of the Stupid Faithful Stupid Faithful . . . "
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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See here (only a few posts up): The Lounge[^]
I don't know anyone, directly, who's had it. On the other hand, an acquaintance lost three friends - clearly on the high side.
Empirical data (observation) point to most people not getting very ill at all - nearly half with no symptoms. But of those that do, it can be a real bitch. Even those that recover may have long term lingering effects. Although bacterial, Chicken Pox and Lyme Disease both stay alive and dormant in one's system for a lifetime. Well, dormant most of the time.
But here's the thing: how many lives are lost with a 1% death rate in just the US? over 3.5 million! Even a tenth of that, with the entire population susceptible, where taking about a horrible number of deaths. Five or six Vietnam War's worth. Probably outstripping all US wars aside from the Civil war.
As for your food hypothesis: if it is correct I'm F***ed! Most of the worst fast food is of a nature that I can't won't eat it. Mainly Taco Bell Bean Burritos and heaven's gift to humanity, Pizza.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Well, there are about 7.5 million cases and around 200K death.
So that's 200000/7500000 = 0.0267.
And 0.0267 * 100 = 2.67%.
So let's say around 3% dies.
For a certain percentage it's a (very) nasty flu-like disease.
And for everyone else it's a mild flu or even nothing.
Even if that last part is only 10%, that still means 750K people experience little to no problems.
That last part is far bigger than 10% though, I don't have numbers, but I think most people are good.
The problem is that those 3% that die need to be hospitalized, but we don't have that capacity, making it all a very nasty business with corpses in the street and whatnot.
ZurdoDev wrote: maybe it's because American's eat so much junk food our immune systems are stronger?
Actually, that 3% mortality rate is pretty high because you guys eat so much junkfood.
That stuff really isn't good for your immune system...
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Sander Rossel wrote: but we don't have that capacity
That stinks. The US has not had that problem.
Sander Rossel wrote: That stuff really isn't good for your immune system...
I know. I was making a funny. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Quote: That stinks. The US has not had that problem.
FTFY - you haven't watched all the news, have you?
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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� Forogar � wrote: you haven't watched all the news, have you?
Thank goodness no. But there was some concern over that in the beginning and all the talk was about "flatten the curve" and that was done long ago and hospitals have not since had that problem.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: there was some concern over that in the beginning and all the talk was about "flatten the curve"
Yeah, in states like NY, NJ, CT.
Meanwhile, the nitwits in states like GA, FL, TX, . . . . etc. are busy generating their own spikes. Rising death rates and all . . . but you, with your "thank goodness" don't watch the news. Do you then form your opinions via wishful thinking or the other 'genius' (he told us he was one) who just knows better as he creates his own reality and the believers do what believers do.
A suppose about a thousand deaths per day isn't much by your standards.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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You have TDS bad. I suggest you get it looked at. Although there is no known cure right now.
Seriously. What the heck is your response about? None of it makes any sense. You're just ranting like a TDS leftist.
Whatever, it's entertaining since you are so wrong and don't know anything about me yet pretend to know so much.
 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: TDS leftist.
Oh my - we have a label - and since you don't like reality you know it must be manufactured by "the LEFT" !
ZurdoDev wrote: you are so wrong and don't know anything about me yet pretend to know so much.
Here, as you almost invariably are, you are wrong yet again.
I know a lot about you - as do others who read your posts: for you define yourself with each of them. No one gives a flying f*** what you think yourself to be in your own imaginings. You are who you show yourself to be.
So stop that worn out and preposterous whine of me (or anyone elsed) not knowing anything about you.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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You are a funny old man.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: not knowing anything about you.
Then prove it. List some things you know about me.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Total Synopsis:
Right wing TROLL wallowing in cherry-picked ignorance
Yeah - that about sums it up.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I accept your surrender. You're all talk bud. Wrong every time you respond to me. Not even in the ballpark. But the fact that you go crazy each time I disagree with you proves my original point. Again and again. Have a good day.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Never argue with a fool - observers may not be able to tell the difference.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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I was feeling a bit biblical this AM.
"Answer a fool according to his follie, lest he be wise in his own conceit."
I mean, really, if we ignored him and he left the site, who'd we have to laugh at on such a regular basis?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Good point. ...although fools rarely listen to anything that contradicts their reality.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Yes, I have and the hospitals here have NOT had the problem. There was scaremongering at the beginning, but nothing since. Lots of pictures of hundreds of empty beds. *yawn*
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Dude, the mortality rate from COVID in Europe or rest of the world is higher than in what it is in the US.
US has 2.9% mortality rate
REST: 3.3% mortality rate
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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It seems you're right, I stand corrected 
Netherlands 4.9%, Belgium 8.1%, UK 9%, Italy 11.2%... US only 2.8%.
I wonder what causes these differences.
But I'm pretty sure it's despite obesity and not because.
Part of it is average age, like Italy has lots of old folk where the US population is considerably younger on average.
And of course testing capacity, less testing is a higher mortality rate.
On the other hand, US accounts for about 21% of global deaths while only having 4.25% of the world population...
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Find the figures that suits you best, and promote those as The One To Focus On.
Deaths per million population - Worldometers as of this morning:
USA: 647
Netherlands: 376
Belgium: 867
UK: 623
Italy: 595
Cases per million population:
USA: 23,037
Netherlands: 7,926
Belgium: 11,224
UK: 7,399
Italy: 5,383
So USA has far more cases, which is bad in isolation. But it gives you a big number to divide the death count by, giving a more favorable impression of the mortality rate.
Deaths divided by cases (as of Worldometers figures today):
USA: 2.8%
Netherlands: 4.7%
Belgium: 7.7%
UK: 8.4%
Italy: 11%
We can stop there. But hold on a second... This assumes that all covid cases are detected in the countries we look at - or at least that the percentage of cases detected is reasonable similar. You detect cases by testing.
Tests per million population:
USA: 336,253
Netherlands: 142,875
Belgium: 293,269
UK: 368,471
Italy: 194,977
So USA has tested 135% more than the Netherlands, 15% more than Belgium, actually 9% less than UK, and 72% more than Italy. It was suggested to reduce the amount of testing, to keep the case sount down - if that logic holds water, we might assume that there are in fact lots of unreported cases, especally in the Netherlands and Italy. The divisor in the "Deaths / cases" calculation may in fact be significantly higher, bringing the mortailty rate significantly down, for these countries.
Whether or not this "correction" should be applied also depends on what qualifies you for being tested, which is not necessarily the same in all countries. Some places, anyone who wants to, whether having symptoms or not, are tested. In other countries (especially in the early stages of the spreading of the virus), testing was - due to limited capacity - restricted to those in the "high risk groups" and those showing symptoms. Or, if you in one area (city, state) have a large outbreak, you may start widespread testing there, leaving other areas less tested. All such differences strongly affect how many covid cases are discovered, and how many go unregistred.
So let us see how effective the testing is, looking at number of cases detected per test:
USA: 0.068
Netherlands: 0.018
Belgium: 0.026
UK: 0.050
Italy: 0.036
On possible observation from this is that USA is a lot better at "finding" covid cases, bringing up the case count (i.e. the divisor in the mortality calculation). It could be that there are just as many cases in other countries, but many of them go undetected, because the symptoms were mild so they never tested, and the "wrong" people were tested instead.
There are so many numbers for us to juggle, and so large variations in national conditions (and they have changed a lot since March, at different rate in different countries) that you will always be able to find figures to support your case. Comparing figures from different countries without being aware of (/pointing out) national differences that may affect your figures makes them next to worthless (except for rhetorical use).
If it suits your case, you may even dispute the detath figures, which is probably the most absolute and objective fact among all those figures you will find.
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And if all else fails I'll just say I don't trust our governments.
My government boosts the numbers to make us scared and keep us in check.
Your government reports less numbers to look better.
Now try and fact check that!
I'm joking, but there are plenty of people who do exactly this and they're not 
trønderen wrote: There are so many numbers for us to juggle, and so large variations in national conditions (and they have changed a lot since March, at different rate in different countries) that you will always be able to find figures to support your case.
Completely agree there!
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ZurdoDev wrote: Does the US have a different version of Covid than Europe?
Short answer, No.
Slightly longer answer, Last time I checked there were about 80000 different versions of the virus, which makes it slowly evolving. Yes, slowly.
They are all pretty well spread around the world, and the difference in virulence isn't that big.
There are four Coronaviruses around since before that infect humans that gives us the common cold. (out of >200 viruses).
Three of those are likely to give us at least partial immunity to Covid-19.
Note that immunity doesn't mean that you don't get infected or sick, it means our immune system is prepared in advance to fight it.
So instead of getting violently sick a la the flu, you "just" get a cold, or don't notice much at all if you're lucky.
In the first wave this spring, those that got less symptoms mostly didn't get tested, tests were scarce and much more expensive then, so they're not not included in the statistics.
And that's the major difference I believe.
Also, keeping better distance and also using masks means the probability of breathing in droplets with viruses is lowered as well as making the droplets as such smaller.
And the lower the virus load, the more time our immune systems have to adapt to the virus.
We're also better prepared now, and better at protecting those that are at risk.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger
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Thanks. Interesting points.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: Does the US have a different version of Covid than Europe?
Coronavirus is the virus, covid is the name of the disease you get if infected. The original strain of corona has almost died out, what is around now are mutations of the original strain and Europe and the US do have their own most common strains, but I don't think there is much of a difference between them.
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