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So - a subjective subject has an objective standard. I've heard the same sheit about who makes the best Pizza.
But, let's look at this objectively - i.e., not about taste but about the wet-chemistry methodology used to produce coffee.
You have the beans: Surface area will control the rate of various extractions, hence the grind is important to control the following:
Soluble products:
With few exceptions, hotter water extracts more quickly and in larger quantities than colder water. This is potentially both positive and negative, depending upon what you wish to extract from the medium. Conventional coffee wisdom is that boiling water is preferred - and except in pressurized espresso makers, that waters' at 100 C. Most minerals must be in an ionic form if one wishes to extract them with water. There's an effect (common ion effect) that could potentially inhibit the extraction of certain minerals if the extraction medium is already high in said mineral. Organically bound minerals, on the other hand, typically are non-ionic and not particularly soluble (e.g., iron in your blood, copper in lobster blood). There's also the possibility of chelation, further complicating the issue (and the effect of temperature), as it may increase the solubility of poorly soluble minerals (eg, most forms of Calcium). The (nauseating)
Organic Product:
These are basically extracted into the system because they're mobilized by the hot-water (not dissolved in it to any significant degree!). If you look up what is called a soxhlet extraction, you'll see the relationship (Wikipedia [^]has a neat animated image). Again, super-heated water will affect this rate. In the typical drip coffee maker, this is a one-pass event so the variation (based upon water temp and grind) will be much more pronounced.
Bare in mind that none of the above even mentioned the degree of roasting (which would be a coffee specific modification to the processes). The roasting, however, causes a breakdown of many of the components (for the paranoid amongst us, like almost all thermal decomposition, it's free-radical chemistry). The partially oxidized oils may take on some partially ionic character, making them easier to extract (except they may bind more firmly to the substrate) - but they may also polymerize and become less soluble and more difficult to 'soften' with hot water for the extraction.
Keurig systems rely partially on elevated pressure to speed the atrocity they call brewing. They even try to apply this to tea!
If the forgoing was annoying enough, imagine that different filter porosity will effect contact time and amount of oils removed. Some (dumb) filter brands brag how much of the oil they'll absorb! Then, too, my favorite coffee maker type is vacuum drip - I have serious control over how long I brew without every boiling the coffee directly.
Putting all this emphasis on magnesium (vs. essentially distilled water, recommended by many coffee production methods/people/pundits/etc.) is ludicrous. Put a tiny pinch of epson salts into your coffee maker and see if it's better beyond the placebo effect.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I don't understand a word of that, but in a good way (I think), so have an upvote.
Er, I can't think of a funny signature right now.
How about a good fart to break the silence?
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In a nutshell, it's an elaboration on "oil and water don't mix", but you can still somehow manage to do laundry.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Chris Maunder wrote: hardware
This. This is the part you shall not miss. Well done.
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Chris Maunder wrote: and the cache[^] that comes with Apple products.
Do they all have lots of fast temporary storage? Or did you mean cachet[^]? 
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Obviously I meant fast temporary storage 
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: laziness, ignorance, convenience, or because there's no other choice
But isn't that how every human makes every decision, ever?
I mean, I know I like to crow about how much research I did over my latest widget purchase, but I can guarantee you I didn't research absolutely every last granule of data available on widgets before I made my decision. Which means my decision was based largely out of ignorance and convenience.
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But if that widget gave you an electric shock every time you used it would you get another? Unless, of course, that was the only widget you could find and you needed one NOW, dammit! NOW!!
That's how I see Starbucks. Taking advantage of my habit and shocking me in the process.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris certainly started a good discussion!
A friend with Italian parents remarked that Starbucks has branches in almost every country in the world except Italy, where coffee was first introduced in Europe. They didn't want to open a café in a country where proper coffee is made.
It's only very recently that Starbucks has dared to open a café in Milan
Jerry
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And I bet it's only used by tourists. Well, that and curious youngsters who will sneak in without their parents/grandparents seeing to try this american abomination.
Er, I can't think of a funny signature right now.
How about a good fart to break the silence?
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Typical EuroSnobbery: the baton of cultural leadership has long ago been passed to the Western Side of the Atlantic. I've been across much of Europe and, particularly when speaking of food and drink, it's time you just get over yourselves.*
And now, I think I'll go enjoy a Hershey Bar[^]!
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Hershey is as bad as Dairy Milk, just in a different way. Mainland Europe seems to have a much better handle on chocolate. I'm not a fan of dark chocolate, but dairy milk is just too sweet. It needs to be chocolatey, creamy and just a bit sweet.
Not sure about cultural leadership, America is such a different place to Europe. There are definitely american influences in europe, but not everything gains traction this side of the pond. Everything is so much bigger there, you have more room. Bigger houses, bigger cars etc. I remember one of the American open-top bus companies trying to start in Bath. They ignored all the local operators and tried to use the same huge open top buses they were using in the US and London. The first one got stuck within a week!
My point is this, some things that work perfectly fine in America won't work here, or at least won't quite fit. Europe, having gotten much "smaller" the last couple of decades, is definitely developing a shared culture, but even there environment, cultural heritage and other influences dictate that there must be differences between each.
We'll continue to pick and choose what we like, but I don't think Europe's culture will ever be "lead" by any influence outside of Europe.
Wow. No idea where that came from. Must be time for a cup of tea! ![Java | [Coffee]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/coffee.gif) (closest picture I could find, sorry)
Er, I can't think of a funny signature right now.
How about a good fart to break the silence?
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Chris Maunder wrote: cache
Cachet, actually. But I like your choice better. 
/ravi
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Are you accusing my iPhone's autocorrrect of being wrong?
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Oh, sorry! I love spell cheque!
/ravi
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See! It's oresome!
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Whether Apple products are well designed or not, people buy it for the coolness factor. Same with Starbucks, you've gotta get your coffee from Starbucks or else risk looking cheap.
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I disagree. I buy apple products because the hardware is so nice and because of the ecosystem.
[Edit: and I'm happy with the fact that the FBI can't crack my phone]
I'm cool enough already. I live in Toronto.
cheers
Chris Maunder
modified 23-Feb-16 11:21am.
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Well I would say you are in the minority then. Pretty much everyone else I know who announce their Apple-love have no idea about whether the hardware is good, whether it's good value for money, whether they need it, etc.
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Nish Nishant wrote: Pretty much everyone else I know who announce their Apple-love have no idea about whether the hardware is good,
Really? I'm surprised at that. Apple are a hardware company. It's what they do best.
I'd be surprised to hear that an owner of an Apple product didn't think it was "good".
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Well they do think it is good, but unlike someone like you, they don't really "know" that Even if it wasn't good, they'd still think that.
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I just replaced my Samsung Android phone with an iPhone. Best thing I ever did!
As for coffee, if you're stupid enough to pay rip-off prices for nearly coffee then you probably don't care what it tastes like.
I may not last forever but the mess I leave behind certainly will.
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Chris Maunder wrote: Im cool enough already. I live in Toronto.
 I do believe that's the first time those words have been used in that order!
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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I tried to come back with some snappy repartee...but couldn't.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: [Edit: and I'm happy with the fact that the FBI can't crack my phone]
But what about Apple's grabbing info about you? You can shut some of the spying down if you can find it - or at least they tell you that you can disable it. Why would they mislead anyone?
Oddly, the FBI is probably the least of the concerns you should have about having your privacy invaded. Most everyone else doesn't have a rule book with at least some accountability.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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