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Or except when conditions are applied that restrict the free movement of workers to UE like the ones for Romania. With the job I've taken in Netherlands, the company actually had to prove that they were unable to find suitable candidates for the job in the EU countries that joined prior to May 2004, before they were allowed to hire me.
There is transitional period of up to 7 years in which conditions apply for EU member states that joined after 1 May 2004 that restrict the free movement of workers.
Last modified: 15mins after originally posted --
Cheers,
Mircea
"Pay people peanuts and you get monkeys" - David Ogilvy
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Buy an ad, or go to the job forum.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer
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Now I am working as web designer. and I am studying mca. So want to change my career to programmer. So what should I do?
Thanks & Regards
V.Arunkumar
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arunkvr wrote: I am studying mca
What is MCA?
arunkvr wrote: So want to change my career to programmer. So what should I do?
Learn a language. Get a book for beginners and work through it. If you are wanting to learn C# then I recommend Microosft Visual C# 2005 Step-by-Step.
You are also going to need to ensure you have good analytical skills. (Problem solving ability)
Unless you have opportunities in your current job to move to application development you are going to have to be able to demonstrate your skills somehow. Joining an open source project seems to be a popular option. Alternatively start your own project - but you will need good design skills for that to work out.
Alternatively, write articles that demonstrate your ability. Start a blog and write about software development. If nothing else you'll get people writing critiques to help you improve. Be graceous with any advice you receive.
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote: What is MCA?
MCA is a university degree conferred as a specialization of work done in Computer Applications. It expands as Master of Computer Applications.
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I think starting in C++ is a good option. Get a starter book and try some stuff.
I like C++ for starting, because you have to program in a clean way.
At the start it might get frustrating but it is worth!
Also to step from C++ to other languages is quiet easy.
Also I think you find it easier if you try to forget about what you learned in Web design! It would be better and easier.
Good luck
Cheers
You have the thought that modern physics just relay on assumptions, that somehow depends on a smile of a cat, which isn’t there.( Albert Einstein)
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Fatbuddha 1 wrote: I think starting in C++ is a good option. Get a starter book and try some stuff.
I like C++ for starting, because you have to program in a clean way.
At the start it might get frustrating but it is worth!
Also to step from C++ to other languages is quiet easy.
Also I think you find it easier if you try to forget about what you learned in Web design! It would be better and easier.
I disagree. For a web designer that is moving into software development it is a pointless move to learn C++. It is better to move across to languages where there is a good overlap with web design. That way existing skills can be transferred and new skills are built on an existing foundation. To dig out that foundation and start from a big hole in the ground is a waste of time.
Chances are that the shift to software development is to facilitate a career change also. That being the case the OP would want something that is immediately marketable. C++ was the language of choice 10 years ago. Not so much today. And a lot of companies want people with web design AND software development skills to help bridge the gap between designers and developers. It is much better in that scenario to learn a language that helps bridge the gap.
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I thought of C++ in order to learn programming, because I think if you continue writing code in Java or C# for web apps. It won't be easy to learn programming. So I think to start really from the beginning would be good.
With you statement according to the companies I definitely agree. I am an BioInformatic and I learned at first C++ then Java and then C# in my campus.
And I think it was the right way.
But ok.
Cheers
You have the thought that modern physics just relay on assumptions, that somehow depends on a smile of a cat, which isn’t there.( Albert Einstein)
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Fatbuddha 1 wrote: I think if you continue writing code in Java or C# for web apps. It won't be easy to learn programming.
You do know that Java and C# are actual programming languages.
Fatbuddha 1 wrote: So I think to start really from the beginning would be good
In that case why not start with assembler programming. Or even flipping switches and manually setting each bit to a one or zero.
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote: why not start with assembler programming. Or even flipping switches and manually setting each bit to a one or zero
Gosh. That's how I did start. God help you if you set a bit wrong, you had to go back and start all over again.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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I do.
But I don't think that web abs in Java or C# are good in order to start programming.
That would be a bit to extreme I think 
But what program language would you think of?
Cheers
You have the thought that modern physics just relay on assumptions, that somehow depends on a smile of a cat, which isn’t there.( Albert Einstein)
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Fatbuddha 1 wrote: But I don't think that web abs in Java or C# are good in order to start programming.
You sound a bit elitist. Java and C# are excellent lanugages.
What exactly is wrong with Java or C#?
Fatbuddha 1 wrote: But what program language would you think of?
C# - The type of application is immaterial so long as he is taught well about application design.
There is zero point in starting the guy in one language if the language that will put food on his table is another. All you are doing is making him starve for a while. Now, if he wants to cross into something that actually requires C++ then it would be perfectly fine for him to learn C++.
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I think you got me wrong. I do think that C# and Java are excellent languages, but not in the case of learning.
It was more ment in the case of web ablications!!
I don't think, that a web designer will profit a lot when he doing web abs, when he want to learn programing.
And I think that you have to be more strict in programming C++ than in Java or C#. For example the garbage collector!!
I just think that if you can program C++ than you are quickly able to learn other languages as C# , Java, Perl, Python, Fortran.
Or what ever comes in your live. Because they are more or less related on C, C++, don't they?
So as you can see, the original question was from a web designer asking for opinions, what he should go to, when he wants to learn programing.
Cheers
You have the thought that modern physics just relay on assumptions, that somehow depends on a smile of a cat, which isn’t there.( Albert Einstein)
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Here's an opinion:
Fatbuddha 1 wrote: I just think that if you can program C++ than you are quickly able to learn other languages as C# , Java, Perl, Python, Fortran.
This statement is utteryly ridiculous. The concepts of programming languages transfer from one language to the next. It doesn't really matter which language you learn first. The concepts still apply to all of them.
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Thats true, but I think that in C++ you have to be more strict in the way you are implementing stuff.
But that is my opinion. Also the main point of my statement was not just the learning of concepts, also if you are implementing on any of those language that I mentioned you will recognize that they are familiar to C++. Such that you can adopt things more easier. And as I was saying above I don't think that C++ is the best language or something like that. I just learned programming on Pascal and then got to C++. Which I think is not good, because the guy who started this post wants to learn a language where you can do certain things. And with Pascal it is most of the time a pain, in my opinion.
So I think you got me kind of wrong, because I referred not just to the concepts, also the the easy going part if you switch to other languages, because the syntax is quiet familiar. But if you compare, lets say Java with C#, which are modern languages, that the diffrent is bigger. than C++ vs Jave or C++ vs C#.
If you have an other opinion please let me know.
Cheers
You have the thought that modern physics just relay on assumptions, that somehow depends on a smile of a cat, which isn’t there.( Albert Einstein)
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Fatbuddha 1 wrote: but I think that in C++ you have to be more strict in the way you are implementing stuff.
Utter crap. This is true in ANY language if you're writing "proper" code, not just C++. The concepts you must learn really have nothing to do with the languages themselves. The syntax you use to use and describe concepts is irrelevant to learning the concepts.
As for me, I think C++ was the 6th language I taught myself, after about 10 flavors of Basic, Pascal, TMS9900 Assembler, Intel x86 Assembler, COBOL, C, THEN C++, ...
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I am not saying that because of the concepts it is the best way of beginning to learn C++. What I am saying is that I think it is a good language to start with because
1) The syntax of the most popular ones are quiet similar to C++
2) The language or that way you have to program in it is quiet strict and you have to be aware of more features or "traps" than in other languages.
3) You run over C++ code all of the time, such that I think it is good if you know how do deal with!
So I hope I pointed out what I am thinking, because I think we are talking of two different points.
Also I have to say I might not be so long in this stuff, but I came through Pascal, Fortran, C, C++, Perl, Phyton, Java, C# and from those I know that C++ is probably the best language if you are learning a language.
just to give you an example. Once I had an exercise where I have to program certain patterns. In C++ you will really learn some stuff out of that. In java or in C# some of those are already in. So you might think that this is good, so that I don't have to program it again, but I think it is not. Because you learn so much out of it!
So thats my side of view.
I don't know what you want me to say out of that:
"As for me, I think C++ was the 6th language I taught myself, after about 10 flavors of Basic, Pascal, TMS9900 Assembler, Intel x86 Assembler, COBOL, C, THEN C++, ."
I am guess you are a long term in programming, aren't you. And the original question was of what language to start with, such that this sentence doesn't make any sense.
Be it as it may, I think that Assembler is dead for now.
There are nearly no Companies dealing with Pascal any more,also I was introduced by it as a learning language.
I heard from COBOL, but I don't know it. Such that I thing you gain the most if you are starting with C++.
That's my point of view, and please refer to this massage, not as :crap, but you might be able to give me your side of thinking, such that, we can have a proper discussion out of it. Which I think would be nice, because I might be able to learn something new.
I hope I made my point.
Cheers
-- modified at 3:44 Friday 23rd November, 2007
You have the thought that modern physics just relay on assumptions, that somehow depends on a smile of a cat, which isn’t there.( Albert Einstein)
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Fatbuddha 1 wrote: And the original question was of what language to start with
Then start with a language that is easy to learn the main concepts. Pointer indirection is not a concept present in many modern languages, but you need to know it to use C++ effectively.
The main concepts are:
Methods
variables
Operators (e.g. +, -, /, *, %)
Flow control (e.g. if/else)
Looping (e.g. for, foreach, while)
Classes
inheritance/polymorphism/abstraction/encapsulation
Fatbuddha 1 wrote: Once I had an exercise where I have to program certain patterns. In C++ you will really learn some stuff out of that. In java or in C# some of those are already in.
Then learn different patterns. It is great that some language have certain patterns built in. By your logic we should learn assembly because the loop pattern isn't built in. You have to use conditional jump instructions, hand craft your own counters and so on to do the same thing. All C# is doing is continuing the trend. And other languages will come up in the future and continue to refine things further.
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Hi sorry for the late replay.
I have to say good point and true!!
You may be aware of that you go to much in extreme I think woth your last sentences, but ok.
Let me say it like that:
I started with pascal, where I learned the basics of programing and that stuff, afterwards we switched to C,C++, where I learned a lot in topics like memory leaks, patterns, pointers vs. references. Hardware near programming, stuff like that. Also I really got in the algorithmic thinking, or how ever you want to call this. Then we learned Java and last but not least C#. A also did some projects in Java and C#, not that you think I might be fresh from school
After looking back I think I gain the most experience in C++. Because there I really get to know what differences it makes if you do it in different ways. Also I have to say that it isn't the easierst language, it can be sometimes quiet anoying for sure! but after all, you really have to take care of every little bit and thats what I liked in terms of learning. I mean if you go for C#, just to program a little you have to know more or less about object oriented programming. Also true for java I think, also with java you wont get help in this forum, because I think the last entry is from last year or so .
So if we look in respect of this forum there are mostly two languages suported, C++ and C#, true?
Such that I think for a web developer it doesn´t make sence to go for C# because the risk is high that he stays in web Abbs and don't be force to programm general algorithms. For example a sorted dictonary in C, is for example a nice App do do , if you start.
Some of this sort, because I think there you gain a lot and you can play a lot of algorithmic thinking. I hope you know what I mean.
In C#, it is easy to "cheat", because you have the class already in. So when he plays with lists and double linked lists, trees and concepts of that and how they can be used efficiently, than he can quickly build up something where he has all the features of what you where talking and he is kind of forced to use them correctly.
And by the way, I don´t know if i missed it or not. But what would be you suggestion according to starter language?
Cheers
You have the thought that modern physics just relay on assumptions, that somehow depends on a smile of a cat, which isn’t there.( Albert Einstein)
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Hi All:
I'm just starting out in my software development career (making a lateral move from systems analyst to developer) and I was wondering if anyone has compiled a cheat sheet of the most common tech interview questions that can be asked. I know two already: "What is the difference between polymorphism and overloading?" and "What is the difference between a value type and a reference type?". And I know there are a HOST of others (I've looked at a number of tech interview sites), but what are the ones that you've found come up over and over again?
Dre---
=======================
Every experience in life is a lesson to be learned
A. Stevens
B.S., Computer Science
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I don't keep a list of question they ask me. I keep a list of questions I ask them.
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1 Do you use source control?
1a Is your SC system something other than VSS?
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If you view money as inherently evil, I view it as my duty to assist in making you more virtuous.
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And if it is VSS, is it backed up every 2 hours??  Why not?? 
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote: And if it is VSS, is it backed up every 2 hours?? Why not??
I thought the if vss used branch was to either ask to leave, or start asking mess with them type questions for your personal amusement.
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If you view money as inherently evil, I view it as my duty to assist in making you more virtuous.
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