|
I'm 17.5 years old and I voted answer 4.
However, your theory is right 
It's just that my father studied computers many years ago and he knew assembler and all that crap
- Dan
"Intel inside - Idiot outside"
|
|
|
|
|
Think, you're not right. At least, as far as me concerns. I'm 55 years old, so I remember the very first machines, and my first programming language was even not Assembler, but machine code. And nevertheless my answer was 3. If the skills are supposed to be not the sum of knowledge, but rather the ability - think, we weren't changed much.
BTW, for real developer the broken standard had never been something amazing. Quite the reverse: developing is in certain sense the breaking of standards.
As for education - once upon a time, when there were no respective courses in the Universities, in my group worked people from different, sometimes very exotic areas. And saying truth, the mathematicians were not always the best programmers. "Programmer" is not the speciality, it is the diagnosis.
For me the distillation of the developer is in the following joke:
"Can you play the violin?" - "Don't know, never tried."
Regards,
Gennady
|
|
|
|
|
I believe that developers haven't changed much because it is all relative.
I think that in years passed, it was necessary to live in all of the low-level tools and languages, that is all that existed. Now we do have all of these tools that generate code for us, and encapsulate the messy details, letting us focus on the task at hand.
Just because you were a great developer from yester-year does not make you a great developer today. I knew a developer who was excellent at HEX conversions in his head and assembly. But object-oriented concepts were past him. He could not function with this new paradigm of thinking. The people that are the great developers are the ones that can learn and adapt to new technologies, and shift their thought process when the old one becomes obsolete.
I think that one other thing to take into consideration is the fact that there is more knowledge to learn today than 20 years ago. I read some statistic that all of human knowledge doubles every 2 years. That is a lot of information to learn for all of the new people that are learning to develop. They first need to learn the foundations, then learn the history of the technologies, and decide what is useful now, and what can be tossed a side.
Checkout my Guide to Win32 Paint for Intermediates
|
|
|
|
|
kilowatt wrote:
I knew a developer who was excellent at HEX conversions in his head and assembly. But object-oriented concepts were past him. He could not function with this new paradigm of thinking.
That soundz like me
kilowatt wrote:
Just because you were a great developer from yester-year does not make you a great developer today.
True.
kilowatt wrote:
I think that one other thing to take into consideration is the fact that there is more knowledge to learn today than 20 years ago. I read some statistic that all of human knowledge doubles every 2 years. That is a lot of information to learn for all of the new people that are learning to develop. They first need to learn the foundations, then learn the history of the technologies, and decide what is useful now, and what can be tossed a side.
To counter that one of the ways we are combatting it is via specialization, in "yesteryear" everone on a team understood the rest of the teams work, and that is not so today.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I think it's interesting that we often qu-ote each other in our sigs and attribute the qu-otes to "The Lounge". --- Daniel Fergusson, "The Lounge"
|
|
|
|
|
because we have languages that hold your hand and IDE's that do the work for you. Someone today on CP claimed if you wrote code in COM you could not remove a method once you added it, which is true only if you don't know how to do anything beyond the wizards.
You simply had to work harder that is currently the case, which is good in some ways, but does not lead to the average ability of coders to do anything but drop. Of course, there always have been good and bad coders, and always will be.
Christian
The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little.
"I'm somewhat suspicious of STL though. My (test,experimental) program worked first time. Whats that all about??!?!
- Jon Hulatt, 22/3/2002
|
|
|
|
|
Christian Graus wrote:
Someone today on CP claimed if you wrote code in COM you could not remove a method once you added it, which is true only if you don't know how to do anything beyond the wizards.
I saw that and wondered, what it meant Thanks
Christian Graus wrote:
Of course, there always have been good and bad coders, and always will be.
Thats the truth, but even us bad coders can be productive still.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I think it's interesting that we often qu-ote each other in our sigs and attribute the qu-otes to "The Lounge". --- Daniel Fergusson, "The Lounge"
|
|
|
|
|
I agree, and would also point to education as a factor. A woman i work with has an IS degree, and has been taking additional C++ and VB classes on the side. I was astonished recently to learn that she had barely a working knowlege of boolean algebra, and did not know what a stack was.
You'r apostrophe bug's me.
|
|
|
|
|
I don't think it's education so much as the difference betwen people doing a course because they percieve there's money in it, and people who live and breathe programming. But I'd agree it's shocking that someone with a degree has not been taught boolean algebra.
Christian
The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little.
"I'm somewhat suspicious of STL though. My (test,experimental) program worked first time. Whats that all about??!?!
- Jon Hulatt, 22/3/2002
|
|
|
|
|
Shog9 wrote:
A woman i work with has an IS degree
Shog9 wrote:
I was astonished recently to learn that she had barely a working knowlege of boolean algebra
OMG, that is real bad.
boolean algebra is so necessary at such a variety of levels.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I think it's interesting that we often qu-ote each other in our sigs and attribute the qu-otes to "The Lounge". --- Daniel Fergusson, "The Lounge"
|
|
|
|
|
The theory is that once an interface is published, it should never be changed. That is why you get IMSInterface2 and IMSInterface3.
Tim Smith
I know what you're thinking punk, you're thinking did he spell check this document? Well, to tell you the truth I kinda forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this here's CodeProject, the most powerful forums in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question, Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Smith wrote:
The theory is that once an interface is published, it should never be changed. That is why you get IMSInterface2 and IMSInterface3.
Yes that is the theory for compatibility issues in the wild, but I think Christian was explaining that you couldn't remove a method with using the wizards, rather than editing/commenting out a few lines of code.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I think it's interesting that we often qu-ote each other in our sigs and attribute the qu-otes to "The Lounge". --- Daniel Fergusson, "The Lounge"
|
|
|
|
|
I realise that, but that is not what I meant or he said. Correct behaviour after publishing a COM interface was not the point, the point was not being physically *able* to remove a method 'once you added it with the wizard'.
I'm sorry if I was not clear, but the point was that this person did not know it was physically possible to change a COM interface, because the wizards don't let/help you.
Christian
The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little.
"I'm somewhat suspicious of STL though. My (test,experimental) program worked first time. Whats that all about??!?!
- Jon Hulatt, 22/3/2002
|
|
|
|
|
Christian Graus wrote:
Someone today on CP claimed if you wrote code in COM you could not remove a method once you added it, which is true only if you don't know how to do anything beyond the wizards.
That depends on what they were implying by 'remove'. You're not supposed to 'remove' a function from a COM interface once you've defined it (that's breaking the interface contract). But then again, I never read the original post - perhaps it was quite obvious that this person genuinely thought that since the tool support didn't do it, then it wasn't doable.
The question of whether or not it's good to have less-skilled developers these days is a bit tricky. I think it's silly to think that there are enough intelligent people who are interested in coding to fill the demand for programmers these days. This leads directly to the lack of skill in the average developer, which further spurs the push for easier, hand-holding IDEs and toolkits.
On the other hand, any industry that relies on the artificial difficulty of its toolsets as a means of developer-quality-control is doomed to failure in the first place.
--
Russell Morris
"WOW! Chocolate - half price!" - Homer Simpson, while in the land of chocolate.
|
|
|
|
|
Years ago developers would balance their check books in hex and knew the kernal source code in binary.
If I could find the kernal I'd know its source in Binary,
But I think the definition of whats a developer has altered over the years.
These days just use a Wizard and post some HTML and you are a developer 
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I think it's interesting that we often qu-ote each other in our sigs and attribute the qu-otes to "The Lounge". --- Daniel Fergusson, "The Lounge"
|
|
|
|
|
Nish
If I am awake and my eyes are closed, it does not necessarily mean that I am thinking of naked women.
|
|
|
|
|
I thought Chris M was Auto notifying you before he posted a new Poll ?
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I think it's interesting that we often qu-ote each other in our sigs and attribute the qu-otes to "The Lounge". --- Daniel Fergusson, "The Lounge"
|
|
|
|
|
Colin Davies wrote:
I thought Chris M was Auto notifying you before he posted a new Poll ?
He was doing that till this time. Dunno what happened. I hope he is okay? It is quite unlike Chris M to forget something as important as this.
Nish
If I am awake and my eyes are closed, it does not necessarily mean that I am thinking of naked women.
|
|
|
|
|
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote:
It is quite unlike Chris M to forget something as important as this.
So it is true !
The priviledges of being a platinum member eh !
I wonder if it is worth the effort though Nish,
I mean you don't have a life anymore just CP.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I think it's interesting that we often qu-ote each other in our sigs and attribute the qu-otes to "The Lounge". --- Daniel Fergusson, "The Lounge"
|
|
|
|
|
Colin Davies wrote:
I wonder if it is worth the effort though Nish,
I mean you don't have a life anymore just CP.
Well,
As long as I have a life, does it matter what kinda life I have? A CPian-addict life is a lot better than being a vietnamise convict or a chicken farmer in zimbabwe or a lawyer in NY.
Nish
If I am awake and my eyes are closed, it does not necessarily mean that I am thinking of naked women.
|
|
|
|
|
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote:
A CPian-addict life is a lot better than being a vietnamise convict or a chicken farmer in zimbabwe or a lawyer in NY.
What made you choose those 3 geographics and occupations? Does it come from a song ?
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I think it's interesting that we often qu-ote each other in our sigs and attribute the qu-otes to "The Lounge". --- Daniel Fergusson, "The Lounge"
|
|
|
|
|
Colin Davies wrote:
What made you choose those 3 geographics and occupations? Does it come from a song ?
Well, the Zimbabwean chicken farmer is a favorite phrase with me ever since I found out that formewr Zimbabwe fast bowler Eddo Brandes was a chicken farmer by trade.
The New York lawyer and the Vietnamese convict just came about automatically. There must be something in my subconcious mind that relates a Zimbabwean chicken farmer with a NY Lawyer and a Vietnamese convict
Nish
If I am awake and my eyes are closed, it does not necessarily mean that I am thinking of naked women.
|
|
|
|
|
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote:
There must be something in my subconcious mind that relates a Zimbabwean chicken farmer with a NY Lawyer and a Vietnamese convict
Don't let me to be one that suggests there is something strange about your mind Nish, I wouldn't do that to you.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I think it's interesting that we often qu-ote each other in our sigs and attribute the qu-otes to "The Lounge". --- Daniel Fergusson, "The Lounge"
|
|
|
|
|
Colin Davies wrote:
Don't let me to be one that suggests there is something strange about your mind Nish, I wouldn't do that to you.
Oh! Do you really think there is something wrong with my mind, Colin? I mean I thought it was natural to relate chicken farmers with convicts and lawyers. Please tell me that there are others who think similarly too! I don't want to be the only loony here 
Nish
If I am awake and my eyes are closed, it does not necessarily mean that I am thinking of naked women.
|
|
|
|
|
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote:
Please tell me that there are others who think similarly too! I don't want to be the only loony here
I don't think you are the only loony here Nish, I think you are the most noticable loony here. 
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I think it's interesting that we often qu-ote each other in our sigs and attribute the qu-otes to "The Lounge". --- Daniel Fergusson, "The Lounge"
|
|
|
|
|
Colin Davies wrote:
I don't think you are the only loony here Nish,
Whew. That's a huge relief Colin.
Colin Davies wrote:
I think you are the most noticable loony here.
Oh well. You cant win em all I guess.
By the way, I wonder how many CPians would be willing to admit themselves to be loonies.
I mean as a loonie, would you actually try and hide that fact from the public?
Nish
If I am awake and my eyes are closed, it does not necessarily mean that I am thinking of naked women.
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
