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Ok... let´s start a real discussion here.
I remember that I´ve spended a fortune with my MCSD certification. Now MS lauched the new VS and I need to do all the MCSD stuff again. Wouldn´t be fair if they have an UPGRADE certification, like they created for Windows 2000 ? They could at least give us a discount on the tests or something... I´ll have to spend a fortune again... 
Mauricio Ritter - Brazil
Sonorking now: 100.13560 Trank
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I am surprised that you actually think you would do yourself good by getting a new certification, Mauricio. Just show them that game you created and also show them the new racing game. In my opinion, that alone should give anybody with any sense a pretty good idea of your programming skills.
Buster
Nish was here, now Nish has gone;
He left his soul, to turn you on;
Those who knew Nish, knew him well;
Those who didn't, can go to hell.
I like to ![Jig | [Dance]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/jig.gif) on the Code Project
Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain
www.busterboy.org
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote:
Just show them that game you created and also show them the new racing game.
The problem is that I can´t submit my games with my resume. I really don´t think they would be usefull if I send my resume applying to a datawarehouse/database job or a web development one (this thingys give some good money sometimes). I hope that someday I create games fulltime and stop working with things I don´t like much.
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote:
In my opinion, that alone should give anybody with any sense a pretty good idea of your programming skills.
I would like if things works that way, but here a certification means a lot (some companies pay more if you have a certification). I´ve another problem... I´m instructor in a MS ATEC, so I need the cert to minister the courses. 
Mauricio Ritter - Brazil
Sonorking now: 100.13560 Trank
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Hi, where can I found that game ?
Thanks,
Andres Manggini.
Buenos Aires - Argentina.
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Thanks, looks great.
do you know where can I found the race game ?
Andres Manggini.
Buenos Aires - Argentina.
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Andres Manggini wrote:
do you know where can I found the race game ?
When I talked with the author last night said its only half done right now; hopefully he'll get the other half finished soon 
James
Sonork ID: 100.11138 - Hasaki
"My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT.
I may make you feel but I can't make you think." - Thick as a Brick, Jethro Tull 1972
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James T. Johnson wrote:
When I talked with the author last night said its only half done right now; hopefully he'll get the other half finished soon
Yippppeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Go Mauritio, go!
Nish [not logged in]
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Hum ... Mauricio, You don't need to upgrade the certification if you have a VB/VC6++ version, microsoft changed their terms of certification
You don't need the MCSD.NET certification for nothing , unless you are trying to showoff your skills to apply to a new job ...
In the past i was a MCSD with VB5 and sql 6.5 , then i lost it  , but my actual company pays me the exams... eh eh , so i taked and passed the designing and implementing ... sql2000 and the 2 VC6++ exams and i'll take the 70-100 shortly, i think ... i waiting since the beginning of February to take the bloody exam .
A note, you don't need to pay a fortune for the certification  , you only need to pay the exams if your company doesn't support it. Exists a
established way of passing MS Certification exams , called Braindumps , making many dumb and stupid guys earn something more money than the competent ones , make the MCSD a bad joke ...
I studied very hard to pass the exams and i have 3 years of professional experience programming VB/VC++(including MFC, COM and ATL), i don't like a kid of 13 years to take all 4 exams with high marks(real case) , only because he did known the questions and the answers ...
I can't give you the link for this sites(they're well know, i think), but if you search the WEB with the MCSD and Braindump , you will find these teasers.
If you have already have the VB/VC6++ exams , then the lamer thing to do is waiting on this sites to the Q & A on last trimester of 2002 ,since the exams will enter beta in April/May ...
Why don't you show off your games , i think it's pretty good publicity ,
Não te preocupes muito com a certificação, mostra os teus conhecimentos técnicos, que as pessoas vão reconhecer o teu trabalho, não é por causa de um papel que te vão rejeitar.
Nota: Em Portugal, onde trabalho, a certificação em MCSD não te dá praticamente vantagem nenhuma a não ser que tenhas mais de um 1/2 anos de experiencia professional, e mesmo assim ... , e ah ajuda sim à empresa que te contrata para ficar Microsoft Certified Partner, sem benficios nenhuns para ti 
Um abraço e continua a fornecer jogos para este site espectacular 
Joao Vaz
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Joao Vaz wrote:
A note, you don't need to pay a fortune for the certification , you only need to pay the exams if your company doesn't support it.
I work for 3 companys an none of them pay my exams At least one of them gimme a 10% discount (the ATEC). 
Joao Vaz wrote:
Não te preocupes muito com a certificação, mostra os teus conhecimentos técnicos, que as pessoas vão reconhecer o teu trabalho, não é por causa de um papel que te vão rejeitar.
Nota: Em Portugal, onde trabalho, a certificação em MCSD não te dá praticamente vantagem nenhuma a não ser que tenhas mais de um 1/2 anos de experiencia professional, e mesmo assim ... , e ah ajuda sim à empresa que te contrata para ficar Microsoft Certified Partner, sem benficios nenhuns para ti
Um abraço e continua a fornecer jogos para este site espectacular
Aha ! A Portuguese Colonizer ! Cool !
Mauricio Ritter - Brazil
Sonorking now: 100.13560 Trank
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Mauricio Ritter wrote:
A Portuguese Colonizer !
Culpado
Precisas mesmo de ter a certificação ? Se precisas digo-te que tanto o
MCSD e o MCSD são fáceis de tirar -> tenho um amigo meu(MCSE Windows 2000 track) que entrou na
Microsoft portuguesa e ficou lá por causa disto:
www.braindumpcentral.com e disto
www.mcsebraindumps.com
Ambos os sites têm digamos questões parecidas com os exames MCSD e MCSE. Ele não comprou livro nenhum nem testes nenhuns nem tem grau universitário,desitistiu no 1ª ano e estudou sempre na véspera do exame ...
Tu devias procurar algo te realizasse profissionalmente e partir à luta ...,
eu por exemplo adoro c++ (na área de sistemas distribuidos), é aquilo me faz ter gozo realmente em programar, e neste momento estou à 4 meses num projecto de 6 meses em TCL(linguagem script tipo perl), javascript e html e mal posso esperar que a minha empresa me mande de volta ao meu c++, já tou a desesperar, se não me enviarem para outro projecto que tenha c++, nem que seja em unix , vou-me embora e procurar um emprego que me dê realmente gozo Yack! Yack!
Não te amoleças rapaz e luta pelos teus gostos !
Um abraço do portuga ,
Joao Vaz
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Actually, while learning is always a Good Thing, there might be a point of diminishing returns with certifications, etc. Admittedly, living in the US I'm ignorant of the job market realities in Brazil, but here in the States I've found that the primary thing employers care about are, "Do you know what you're doing with this technology, and can you meet the deadlines?". I have no college, no certifications (and probably a serious lack of common sense), but I haven't missed a meal in 12 years of working in this biz.
I think the comments about your games were well said. I do in fact put personal projects on my resume if they demonstrate experience with a technology. Of course, I also have a Far Side cartoon at the bottom of my resume. They may love me or they may hate me, but they always remember I was there...
In any event, most programmers excel in the technical, but never spend near as much time learning the skills that they need to navigate the corporate world and market themselves. It may not be right and it may not be fair, but more often than not the person who gets the job is not necessarily the most technically adept, but the one who knew how to play the game.
"But I'm a programmer - I shouldn't have to deal with marketing and politics!" True enough, I suppose, but irrelevant just the same. This is the business world. Logic doesn't apply.
Chistopher Duncan
Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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You shouldn't have worry about this for some time.
http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcad/compare.asp
According to this page there will be two levels of cert, MCAD and MCSD, but the exams are not scheduled to be released until June 2002, one isn't available until February 2003.
I'm looking forward to renewing my cert, I have found it a good way to learn the new technologies and tools. I have also personally found it to be of benefit for job searching. I have gotten at least two contracts because of it. I had an interview last week where I noticed the person had that part of my resume highlighted and said that they were looking for someone with MCSD.
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Guys
This was my idea. Yesterday when someone in the lounge asked about some MCSD stuff, I stated that it would be nice to have a forum just for this.
Chris M, I demand to be recognized for my idea
Nish
Nish was here, now Nish has gone;
He left his soul, to turn you on;
Those who knew Nish, knew him well;
Those who didn't, can go to hell.
I like to on the Code Project
Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain
www.busterboy.org
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I personally recognize that you were the first to state that a forum for this topic should be made.
- Matt Newman
-Sonork ID: 100.11179:BestSnowman
Frankly AOL should stick to what it does best: Fooling millions of americans into believing that it, AOL, is the web. -Paul Watson
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Matt Newman wrote:
I personally recognize that you were the first to state that a forum for this topic should be made.
Matt, I am glad that at least you had the candor and grit to stand by me and give me the acknowledgment long due.
Nish
CPUA # 0x0666
Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain
www.busterboy.org
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Nish
are u still in Trivandrum ? or moved to US ?
..just wondering...
redindian
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Nish
are u still in Trivandrum ? or moved to US ?
..just wondering...
redindian
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Per his Web site, he has returned from Trivandrum.
http://voidnish.com/NishBio.aspx
"Opinions are neither right nor wrong. I cannot change your opinion. I can, however, change what influences your opinion." - David Crow
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Actually the first post was mine, but David hacked CP and changed the name...
Isaac Sasson,
Small time programmer - complainer at large.
Sonork ID 100.13704
"I don't beleive in women selling their bodies. They should be cooking instead."
-Simon Walton, February 14, 2002 at Bob's HangOut
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You don't think I was alone do you?
I had a little insider help...
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________________
David Wulff
http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
Sonork ID: 100.9977 Dave
Contents of my clipboard:
Barclays Visa Connect - 4936-3503-2 -- sh*t, I'd better edit the rest out...
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... to post here, but I had to get the first one in!
________________
David Wulff
http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
Sonork ID: 100.9977 Dave
Contents of my clipboard:
Barclays Visa Connect - 4936-3503-2 -- sh*t, I'd better edit the rest out...
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And here I was wondering how long it would take for people to notice 
cheers,
Chris Maunder
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Come on Chris, you've been here for god knows how long now and you still don't know the average member has a custom web spider that trolls every page on CP for anything that has changed since the last check (usually every two minutes or so) and pages the information straight to their cell phone, whilst automatically loading the page on their laptop so by the time they have received the message they are all ready to go.
Let the truth be told, I think it was Isaac that told me he had seen the new forum, and so I hoped over and posted my short message whilst he was no doubt typing out a masterpiece of cunning and wit. Let even more truth be known that I was crossing my fingers after I posted the message to check it was first... 
Chris, you have created a monster!
________________
David Wulff
http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
Sonork ID: 100.9977 Dave
Contents of my clipboard:
Barclays Visa Connect - 4936-3503-2 -- sh*t, I'd better edit the rest out...
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David Wulff wrote:
Chris, you have created a monster!
It wasn't Chris who created it. I created this monster. He just implemented my creation 
Nish
p.s. I wonder when he'll come on CP and deny all this
Nish was here, now Nish has gone;
He left his soul, to turn you on;
Those who knew Nish, knew him well;
Those who didn't, can go to hell.
I like to ![Jig | [Dance]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/jig.gif) on the Code Project
Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain
www.busterboy.org
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