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Option 1:
Marc Clifton wrote: and the web development community is in free-fall.
without parachutes
Option 2:
Marc Clifton wrote: and the web development community is in free-fallfail.
FTFY
Choose one  
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Marc Clifton wrote: It's a free-for-all out there, and the web development community is in free-fall
Years ago I was basically being moved away from a traditional desktop client/server app developer role into a web dev role. Then a few months ago I told my boss I had to go back to something I'm more familiar with because--I told him bluntly--as a software developer, that's not what I had signed up for. Portfolio diversity be damned. It had come to a point where I dreaded getting up in the morning. It's not that I couldn't hack it, I just hated every aspect of it.
If I can make it to retirement without ever having to do web development...I'll be happy. If I can't - I honestly would consider an early retirement. I just can't find the motivation for that crap.
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dandy72 wrote: If I can make it to retirement without ever having to do web development
<snicker> I made it, just.
Now looking at fiddling around with web design in my copious spare time, haven't touched any code in months.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -
RAH
I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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If there's one thing I won't be doing with my "spare time" once retired...it's web development. Unless it becomes a whole different ball of wax by then. However, based on its 20+ year history, I don't see it happening.
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I'm all in favour of ham-fisted, messy, badly-designed pages for people's personal sites (if a guy wants to have his say about something or just be a part of the Internet, he shouldn't have to study for three years to do so), but the slightest sign of unprofessionalism in site design for a company makes me not want to risk doing business with that company.
For me, not being willing or able to do a job well means not being willing or able to do a job well.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Unused space is a waste of screen real-estate.
I've been given a machine with a heavy graphics card, and at a high resolution half of my screen is often empty on most webpages. Most games use the space more wisely.
Also, I am a big fan of WinForms, and as someone already noticed, it scales horribly 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: at a high resolution half of my screen is often empty on most webpages.
And here I thought fluent design (isn't that what it's called?) was supposed to solve that.
Web developers must be made to test against everything between 800x600, and all the way to 4K IMO. Native, not rescaled.
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Going to cost too much, simple as that.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Web developers must be made to test
How about we just start with that then?
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Reminded me of "big pants and I cannot lie[^]".
My fault, or did you aim for it?
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
modified 3-Mar-20 19:16pm.
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You missed the point, tracking an item should be a challenge as they are not really interested in you finding it so - crappy web design gets blamed for deliberately obscure edit controls.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -
RAH
I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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What I do in such case.
I select everything on the page. (Ctrl-A)
Usually that shows all items on the screen, visible or not.
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Yes but you're missing the point - some overpaid, di@khead, management puke thought this would make him/her/they (?) look REALLY cool at the next Management Bull@hit Bingo fest (sorry, 'meeting').
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Quote: Why do so-called designers think that large areas of blank, white space is a good thing?
Of course, white space is a good thing. Walls of components and or text aren't inviting your users in. Reading on a monitor or tablet isn't the same as on paper. https://uxplanet.org/the-power-of-whitespace-a1a95e45f82b[^]
Quote: In the good old days the key thing about displaying information on a screen was to provide such information in a compact, readable form
The reason we crammed everything on a screen in 'the good old days' was because of technical limitations, not because it was easy to use or inviting to use. Also, users usually had no alternatives, so how they felt in practice about it didn't matter.
We have some of these applications at my current client. They are horrible.
As for your example: I agree that that is bad UX. But it's not a good example of why whitespace is bad.
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I couldn't agree more. User interfaces especially those of UK high street banks are appalling but nowhere near as poor as the UK government web sites. These have been designed to guide you through a process that you find it hard to circumvent.
It's almost like someone took a script / flowchart out of a book and tried to turn it into a web based menu driven system. When I access the site I want to see a log on and log out button somewhere near the top of the page, nope, all of this is hidden until they have determined what you "might need to do today". Then it's a matter of answering 4 or 5 questions with button clicks which take you from one page to the next. Almost as though someone thought, "hey we'd better keep the pages small but lets have loads of white space to make it look clean".
Shoddy beyond belief.
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I am new to Win 10 and I simply hate the design of the "Schedule my Updates for Later" dialog/application/panel.
It would work well as a simple dialog with the nice time control and two buttons: "Schedule it", "Remind me later/Cancel".
Instead they have a slider thingy and instructions on the page that you actually have to read to understand how to use what could have been a simple popup dialog.
The old Microsoft used to be CUA compliant everywhere. Now they are trying to make Win10 look like a phone UI.
Bring back CUA!
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Probably designed by a cousin of the guy who designed the hospital laboratory information system screens that now require lots of page flips to do routine work because the others were "too busy" ... skilled knowledge workers like busy screens, naive ones not so much.
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No one else tried to find what site he was talking about?
Both Fedex and UPS seem like fine
Without the reference, first thought sounds more like UI issue not UX (im one of the a-holes that try to seperate the two - look of interface vs how user engages with interface)
The abundance of white space might be a part of the transition away from the skeuomorphic designs. It takes time to figureout a balance and I think there is still wiplash effects of this change starting 10 years ago.
A comment made when I was doing my degree sticks with me. You got this big screen (might have been 800x600 or 1024×768) and all your doing is typing text. There is no need to have the application full screen.
So urks me when some devs have a notepad fullscreen while switching to a browser of some other application.
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Am I the only one who misses skeuomorphic designs? I much preferred iOS before version 7. Jonathan Ivey is not on my Christmas card list...
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Agree. Hate, hate, hate, the "magic scrollbars" which only appear if you happen to move the cursor to the right place.
Also, if you want me to input something, make it obvious where. Far too many sites where input area isn't set off from the background (or is something like light gray text on a white background).
First rule of internet commerce: don't make it difficult for your users to give you money.
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yeah, teenagers using psychedelic stuff in the weekend, then hit the commit button monday at work after quickly adjust the ui to match what they have experienced in their trip. you are the problem ! navigate to their site only when having some dmt stuff in your blood as well, and you'll be just fine 
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I absolutely hate modern web page design. It works on a small screen for fingers but is 100% garbage on a laptop or desktop screen.
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With you on this one. Hard to tell whether it is part of a "look, I'm clever" feature or a "look, I'm dumb" one.
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If you are your own worst critic, is that a sign you have never been married?
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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