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OriginalGriff wrote: and you can get help here: Quick Answers How?
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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UrgentzzzZ?
Rules for the FOSW ![ ^]
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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Forgot to add 'Plz'...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Ask it when He Who Must Not Be Named is asleep...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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And "that isn't rude or offensive"...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Oh, no.
If you want me to be rude and offensive about him, we'll have to take it outside - the cat is too young to hear (or read) that kind of language!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Welcome on board
I never finish anyth
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Welcome to CodeProject; may you learn long and prosper.
cheers, Bill
«I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center» Kurt Vonnegut.
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ismann wrote: modding
hear here ...
So, Charlie Rose is interviewing this twit who has just directed a Bond movie and he makes a reference to some obscure passage in the footage. And the braggard goes off on himself, as if he was Uma Thurmond at a table with Ethan Hawk joking about asylum inmates jumping into the Neva, "I just got through filming the greatest depiction of someone putting out an eye in all history" ...
And I thought "Oh, right Shakespeare, Regan did it with a heel to Gloucester at Cornwall's house".
Nope.
Me!
I did this; and my name is ... Jack London.
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Hey Fellow CP'ers,
Not sure if this is the right place to ask this but I'm sure if it's not then Maunder or any of you kind folks will tell me where to go...
I'm faced with yet another software development proposal and even though I've been in the business for awhile I can never hear enough feedback from the community about this particular thing:
Should I cry hourly or bid on the whole project?
I've been in situations in which I've bid (1994) on a project that ended up making me about $3.00/hr because, since I'm a geek, ended up working about 90-100 hours/week (and got to learn the beginnings of .NET ).
I've been in other situations in which I got $20/hr for 40 hrs/week for work that in some times and places should rightfully have cost $60/hr...
This latest opportunity is very exciting and I just wanted to hear from fellow CP'ers about their experiences with hourly rate vs. project bid scenarios...
Thanks Everybody,
clientSurfer
... having only that moment finished a vigorous game of Wiff-Waff and eaten a tartiflet. - Henry Minute
I'm still looking (eagerly) for wisdom in terms of best practices in OO design; and I doubt I'll ever quit looking. - BillWoodruff
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning. - gavindon
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Bid - if scope is clear, frozen and signed off**.
Hourly - otherwise.
How about agile - hourly? Wouldn't that be a better option?
** Highly unlikely; there will be changes in scope.
modified 9-Nov-15 23:04pm.
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Yeah I've only had one meeting with this guy so the scope is not clear at all...
I like the idea of agile hourly... I'm going to investigate that further... Thanks so much for the reply! Cheers
... having only that moment finished a vigorous game of Wiff-Waff and eaten a tartiflet. - Henry Minute
I'm still looking (eagerly) for wisdom in terms of best practices in OO design; and I doubt I'll ever quit looking. - BillWoodruff
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning. - gavindon
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This is always a nightmare - and the "best" route is never as easy to spot as it seems. Basically, there are a number of major factors which determine whether I quote an hourly rate or a fixed price:
1) Specification. How "tight" is it? The "firmer" the spec, the more likely I will go fixed price, but with a caveat that changes may mean additional cost. The "looser" the spec, the more likely that I'll go hourly.
2) Ability to estimate my time. I'm reasonably good at this these days, but I've made some horrible errors in the past. If you are good at estimating how long something is going to take you, then most customers prefer a fixed price. If you aren't, then hourly is the only way to go.
3) Customer history. How good are they to work with? How easy is it to get the money out of them when it's due? Do they pay up in the thirty days from the invoice, or is it always ninety days in practice? The more hassle it is to get the money, the more an hourly rate is likely.
4) Repeat business. I'll give a fixed price or discounted if it's pretty sure that there will be more work as a result - I'm in this for the long term, and losing a little money now to get it back fourfold over the next five years is a good bargain! Or if I can get a commission on each item they sell as a result, then I'll leap at it! That's like having a free money machine pumping into your account for the cost of sending an invoice each month!
The one thing I will say about a fixed price: try to make it staged payments: maybe 25% upfront, 25% here, 25% there, 15% on delivery, and 10% on three month retention. That way, you are hopefully covered for your costs at each stage even if they decide to sit on the final two payments (i.e. "pure profit margin")
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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This is usually how I approach projects. Customers do like a fixed price. However, they also understand that the project can go over due to unforeseen issues. So in those cases, most customers don't have a problem adjusting the original quote. I don't really like hourly because lawyers bill hourly and nobody like lawyers.
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jesseseger wrote: I don't really like hourly because lawyers bill hourly and nobody like lawyers.
Good stuff - thanks so much for answering!
... having only that moment finished a vigorous game of Wiff-Waff and eaten a tartiflet. - Henry Minute
I'm still looking (eagerly) for wisdom in terms of best practices in OO design; and I doubt I'll ever quit looking. - BillWoodruff
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning. - gavindon
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Great answer and good food for thought... Thanks so much
... having only that moment finished a vigorous game of Wiff-Waff and eaten a tartiflet. - Henry Minute
I'm still looking (eagerly) for wisdom in terms of best practices in OO design; and I doubt I'll ever quit looking. - BillWoodruff
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning. - gavindon
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A bid is not a final price. If the scope changes then you manage it with a change request. If a risk becomes an issue then you should have already identified the impact in terms of additional cost, time and quality. In summary, it's just a price on what you already know about the scope. You can't rely on the client's definition of the project,these are things you must analyse yourself and provide your input as a professional.
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Excellent... This ties in with what some other CPians have been saying...
I really appreciate your feedback!
... having only that moment finished a vigorous game of Wiff-Waff and eaten a tartiflet. - Henry Minute
I'm still looking (eagerly) for wisdom in terms of best practices in OO design; and I doubt I'll ever quit looking. - BillWoodruff
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning. - gavindon
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clientSurfer wrote: 1994 ... and got to learn the beginnings of .NET
Since the first beta of .NET 1.0 didn't appear until late 2000[^], that was a ridiculously long project!
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Richard Deeming wrote: Since the first beta of .NET 1.0 didn't appear until late 2000[^], that was a ridiculously long project!
Thanks for catching that... I meant 2004!
... having only that moment finished a vigorous game of Wiff-Waff and eaten a tartiflet. - Henry Minute
I'm still looking (eagerly) for wisdom in terms of best practices in OO design; and I doubt I'll ever quit looking. - BillWoodruff
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning. - gavindon
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OriginalGriff has great points.
Let me add:
- What does the customer want?
- Is your goal higher profits, or better software?
- Is it your default to deliver better software even if you have to go the extra mile for free?
- How good are you at estimating your time?
- New Technology?
I do more than half my work at an hourly rate. Because I am honest, I have a few open ended projects with clients where they send an email, I look into it, and bill them on the next invoice. That is nice for everyone. Hassle free.
But some clients prefer a "Bid not to exceed". Which is basically a way to get you to bid against yourself. Be careful.
I usually prefer hourly. But recently some bigger clients just have an easier time getting a big $ approved once. So I have been experimenting. Currently I am getting MUCH better at asking for 30-50% more than I think it would take in a worse case scenario. If the customer is happy with that, then I am happy. If I choose to throw in a few extras, it just makes me look better.
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Awesome points to consider... You guys always come through... Thanks for replying!
... having only that moment finished a vigorous game of Wiff-Waff and eaten a tartiflet. - Henry Minute
I'm still looking (eagerly) for wisdom in terms of best practices in OO design; and I doubt I'll ever quit looking. - BillWoodruff
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning. - gavindon
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clientSurfer wrote: This latest opportunity is very exciting
Then obviously you should offer to do it for nothing as a pleasurable learning experience empowering you to better benefit your glorious nation and all mankind at a later date. That's the trouble with people today. All these entitlement issues. In my day you were lucky to get a plate of dripping a year and you were bloody grateful for it!
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ROTFFLMAO
... having only that moment finished a vigorous game of Wiff-Waff and eaten a tartiflet. - Henry Minute
I'm still looking (eagerly) for wisdom in terms of best practices in OO design; and I doubt I'll ever quit looking. - BillWoodruff
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning. - gavindon
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