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At my last job I was the lead on a project the evaluated VSS vs. P4 vs. Clear Case vs. PVCS
By far it seemed that P4 was the most bang for our buck. The build *nazi* loved it and as a developer I found it had the least odd quarks compared to the others. I esp loved the SCC provided for VS.net and it's intergration with MS Office.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that?
- Jack Burton
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Hi,
i'm using SourceSafe too, but i know that there is another solution which supports the SCC Provider as well.
Take a look
.:Greets from Jerry Maguire:.
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I use source safe mainly because of its user interfaces and Visual Studio IDE integration. Less hassle.
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I got a copy of VSS with my enterprize visual studio 6 but I never used it.
John
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I've used source-safe for over 5 years and it has rarely let me down. Most of those times have been in small companies where the teams were never bigger than 5 developers.
I've only ever had the database corrupt on me once and that was probably down to a network fault.
Things I don't like
1. No integration with ActiveDirectory. I like things to have a single logon - but thats just me.
2. Not easy to use over a WAN
3. Easy hackable - want to change the admin password; a quick google will tell you how. (Saved my ass once when I forgot the admin password)
Michael
'War is at best barbarism...Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell.' - General William Sherman, 1879
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It seems like people find SourceSafe OK for small projects, but for anything else, it seems to such. I've never used it, mostly because the admins at places I've worked say it sucks.
Integration with Visual Studio is overrated, IMHO. I don't check in and out files so often that it would really save any time. In fact, I *want* it to be slightly difficult to check out a file... that way if I realize I'm about to check out 5 files, I actually have to think and make sure I'm doing things the right way.
"When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity." - Albert Einstein
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I have used VSS for more than 5 years as well; the first three years involved only small projects with a few developers. Today the project I am using VSS for is so large that we have to maintain seperate databases for the source and documentation. Corruptions are a monthly occurrance, and about once every four months the corruption is so significant that it cannot be repaired and the DB must be restored from a 24-hr backup. Finding and re-committing files that have changed after the last backup is a nightmare when you have around 200 people involved.
I agree with the ActiveDirectory integration; that would make life much easier on the db store administrators.
Here is my VSS wish list:
The ability to append text to the comments of historical file entries.
Cloaking at the File level.
Security delegation
Drag-and-drop moves a file instead of "sharing" (or at least an easier way to break accidental shared links)
Better audit reports
All-in-all, while I have to use VSS at work, it doesn't cut it for my personal on-the-side jobs. I am looking into WinCVS, but I still have writing a custom version-control system *for developers* on my to-code list.
Does anyone have any other version-control applications I should take a look at? Or how about features that you would want to see in new vc app?
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Brandon Haase wrote:
Does anyone have any other version-control applications I should take a look at
Take a look at Suberversion[^] which is supposed to address many of the faults of CVS (yes there are some  ), and add a number of really cool features to the mix. Still in development, but looks to be pretty cool when it's done.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire!
Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!
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Thanks for pointing out Subversion. I love it.
- Brandon
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With 200+ people involved in a heavily commercial environment you might want to look at Rational Clearcase.
It has command line and IDE, there are a few problems here and thee, but 450 of us are all on it across the country and it seems to chug along pretty well.
I am not an Admin of it, so I can't comment on that. As a developer/user, it does everything I need. It can also handle merges pretty well, something I recall SourceSafe pretty much sucked at.
C++/MFC/InstallShield since 1993
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It's funny you should mention that; my employer has licensed Rational Suite nearly a year ago, but has not seen fit to provide any training in its use or encourage a transition away from VSS within IT. It is probably in the pipeline though; considering how deep we are in the release cycle, it would be a bad time to transition to a new version control system. We just had a new defect tracking system implemented; it was a highly positive change, but extremely painful.
That's kind of beside the point though, I am looking for an application for my private consulting work. At most we get five or six developers in the pot at one time. I am giving WinCVS[^] a pilot run (1 week into it) and Jim just pointed out Subversion[^]. Its feature list is an interesting read; I'll give it a try with my next small project. In this case where I do have a choice, I want to use something besides VSS.
Thanks!
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To the above wish list I'd add better sharing/branching/merging. VSS can only share once before the history become "disconnected". It's very cumbersome to manage multiple simultaneous development paths on a code base. Yes, pin works but it requires additional effort on the part of each developer and is therefore error prone.
In short, VSS is a nice starter tool for source that evolves linearly. For any "real" source base that has mainlines, service packs, new feature work and cancelled/abandoned projects all at once, VSS can't cut it.
CVS has nicer branching/merging. Don't have experience with any of the others mentioned here.
Brad
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If VSS had built-in remote control, perhaps over FTP, then the package would be 100 times better. As it is, third party packages like Source Off-Site may be fine, but I haven't used them (partly because managers would soon expect me to work 24 hours a day).
However, I'd rather use the beast than drop to a DOS window or TCL/TK command line to issue commands available in CVS. IDE integration is the main feature that VSS can boast and that is enough for me.
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Tom Welch wrote:
However, I'd rather use the beast than drop to a DOS window or TCL/TK command line to issue commands available in CVS. IDE integration is the main feature that VSS can boast and that is enough for me.
CVS does have a GUI (http://www.wincvs.org[^]), but it leaves a LOT to be desired. There's just something about open source software - it's great stuff, but most of it is never very polished.
CVS also has IDE integration: http://www.jalindi.com/igloo/[^]
I still prefer source safe. Maybe that feeling will pass as I get more used to CVS.
Jon Sagara
In India, when someone says "mad cow", you know it's actually a bull charging at him.
-- Rohit Sinha
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I used WinCVS to see what it could do. There were a some commands that you had to type into the command line (I think releasing a project was one such command - that is a basic need that requires a menu option). 
Also, I have noticed that almost all Windows interfaces for open source software suffer from EMacs syndrom. That is, 100 menu commands divided into strange groupings with related commands appearing on different menus. 
I downloaded Igloo, but I was not really interested in installing it just to use an already lack-luster CVS with VS.NET. I also had to teach two junior developers how to use it (and one of them was running Front Page). I just couldn't justify the headache. 
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I'm using TortoiseCVS, it's a beautiful GPLed CVS client which integrates into the context menu of the explorer. There's no command line and no emacs syndrom.
And it also works from the file open/save dialogs, even those inside Visual Studio, so I would call it integrated into the ide 
---
Author of FileZilla FTP
http://sourceforge.net/projects/filezilla
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Corrupt databases.
No way of running it remotely via simple TCP connections.
No cross-platform support.
Slow.
So bad Microsoft doesn't even use it for most of their projects.
Why on Earth anyone uses Source(Un)Safe is beyond me.
SourceOffsite sucks as well. Start a checkout and you'll quickly see that there's no way to cancel or stop it in progress. Hangs are common.
Blech.
CVS has its own problems, but at least it's free and cross-platform.
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Anonymous wrote:
SourceOffsite sucks as well.
SourceOffsite does have its limitations, I'll grant you that. But when the company I worked for needed to work from two remote locations through a campus (Texas A&M University) firewall, and connect to a preexisting VSS depot -- We were hard pressed to find a better solution that got us up and running. Because everyone was already familiar with VSS from using it in the lab on campus, moving remote and using SourceOffsite saved us time and money.
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I would say it's useful for small projects only.
When we were using it we found the database kept getting corrupted every week or so and that was for max 20 people acessing the database. 
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Some questions can't be answwered.
Who said that SourceSafe is the defacto standard? Seems to me it's CVS.
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Jim A. Johnson wrote:
Who said that SourceSafe is the defacto standard?
The other survey might suggest just that: Source Code and Version control[^]
Version control is often enforced by the company, so it's not always the best tool that wins the game.
Jim A. Johnson wrote:
Seems to me it's CVS.
CVS is probably the tool of choice whenever one has a choice. It's a de facto standard on Unix, for small, medium and large projects. It's also the most popular over the Internet.
<center> </center>
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George wrote:
The other survey might suggest just that: Source Code and Version control[^]
Ah, I see. Clearly that's a fact I had missed/
I actually enjoyed using VSS when I did, but the last two places I've worked have ignored it; and I thought I was a trend here on CP of CVS being recommneded over VSS.
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Jim A. Johnson wrote:
Who said that SourceSafe is the defacto standard? Seems to me it's CVS.
Not on Windows, hence the clarification in the poll saying "Windows." CVS is seen as the choice of the Unix/Linux crowd. SourceSafe the "choice" of the Windows crowd.
Remember SourceSafe comes with Visual Studio for most Windows developers.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
Vivek Rajan wrote (about the Matrix):
I assume they are using low colors because they want faster rendering using cheaper hardware... ...Cmon - atleast use 256 colors...
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