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Paul Farry wrote:
If the purpose is to knock something together in 30minutes, I'll grab VB,
For me, if the first requirement I'm told is the time limit, I tell them to get stuffed. The time constraint should be the absolute last requirement that a developer is given.
Chris Meech
"what makes CP different is the people and sense of community, things people will only discover if they join up and join in." Christian Graus Nov 14, 2002.
"AAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!! Those leaks are driving me crazy! How does one finds a memory leak in a garbage collected environment ??! Daniel Turini Nov. 2, 2002.
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Chris Meech wrote:
The time constraint should be the absolute last requirement that a developer is given.
Yeah, if you want to do proper R&D the questions how much does it cost, and how long will it take, are irrelevant.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
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When I said 30 minutes... I meant something trivial (data entry screen for an operator).... Not that someone is imposing a 30 minutes deadline on me.
Of course if someone else is setting my deadlines, I push back on them and give them a more accurate assessment.
Even if that assessment is still 30minutes, I'll return to my office, have a think about the requirement and then say... Hmmm I think we'll be fine for this project in xx Time + 10%... Errors do occur.
This also portrays to project managers that you don't just shoot from the hip regarding projects and timeframes. In the longer term this approach has served me well, because when I tell a project manager the time, they adjust their schedule rather than mine....
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What is below average? If its a VB user then that explains the results thus far. 
Todd Smith
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At least VB programmers aren't up their owm A#@ES!
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That's because they haven't found it. 
--
Ignorant people upsets me.
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LeeDaviesVBSource wrote:
VB programmers
VB "programmers"? Hahahahahahahahahaha...
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Where's the Godlike option?
I work with a bunch of straight out of university VB programmers and one FoxPro programmer who hasn't learnt a new language or technology in 6 years.
I always thought I was an average programmer until I met these guys 
Michael
The avalanche has started, it's too late for the pebbles to vote.
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LOL I feel the same way. Where is the god like option? Most of the people out of universties don't know much at all except visual basic. I for one am not even out of highschool and I am way exceeding them. I already have tons of C/C++, weblanguages, and other type of expereince. Including I can make full 3d games in directx by myself. That is what makes me feel even more sad  ..
- LiquidKnight
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Maybe you are very good in what you do. But try writing a Compiler without any knowledge of Computer Theory ( FA's, Regular Expressions, etc...)
Never under - estimate what you can learn in school.
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I have wrote a compiler.. What more do you want me to make?
- LiquidKnight
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What kind of compiler? What sort of features do you support? Why dont you post it on CodeProject, I would be interested in seeing it as and article.
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day
Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life!
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It don't support many features at all its just a small compiler I made. It is not a "godly" all and mighty compiler. I don't post much on code project at all because I feel my code is being used without me being able to get any credit for it.
- LiquidKnight
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What kind of credit are you looking for?
I think that if you write a good solid piece of code that people can reuse and learn from you will plenty of credit in the comments section of your article.
Besides I posted a full version of tetris here on CP, and I saw links to it in the news for other game programming sites. That made me feel really good.
I dont expect much for the code I give away here on CP, it is basically for people to learn from. The most that I expect is a "thanks" or a "good job".
You should reconsider posting it, I think a lot of people would like to see how a compiler works 
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day
Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life!
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What is suppose to be expected from teachers who hasn't never sold a line of its own code?
Thats the regular case I think...
Just three words: void main(void)
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Michael P Butler wrote:
I work with a bunch of straight out of university VB programmers and one FoxPro programmer who hasn't learnt a new language or technology in 6 years.
Be thankful you are with a bunch of guys who are current. Before I changed groups (2 years) only 2 of us (out of 20) had migrated beyond Fortran. To do the "new gui stuff" they used "D".
"I will find a new sig someday."
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Michael P Butler wrote:
Where's the Godlike option?
agreed.
Some time compare your self to a Uni Professor and you might feel that Monothesism is all about you.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
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Oy! Remember some of us are lecturers!
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gregs wrote:
Oy! Remember some of us are lecturers!
Well you should be ashamed of yourself if you in anyway teach VB or the likes.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
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Michael P Butler wrote:
I always thought I was an average programmer until I met these guys
Ditto on that.
Whenever I do a code review I feel like saying "404! wtf do you think this is going to do in production?"
I know there wouldn't be a response, and that would be my answer.
Patience, my son, patience...
Cheers,
Simon
"The day I swan around in expensive suits is the day I hope someone puts a bullet in my head.", Chris Carter.
animation mechanics in SVG
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I agree with you, but you've got to remember that microsoft invented vb to get the people programming on windows in a cupple of weeks.
This people were programming DOS applications in cobol, pascal, and so on...
They make rate ourself as "above average", and I've got to be thankful.
You've got to be thankful when you see this people consuming your activex and high performance libraries, they let you investigate, write complex code and all that things that make the life wonderful for people who want to get brain tunned on ...
I'm spanish, and all this kind of things you talk about, like that people living university with just vb skills is the same here and I guess all over the computing world.
Just three words: void main(void)
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Every programmer on my team is in his mid-to-late 30s. They each probably have at least 15-20 years of dev experience.
I'm 25, and I wrote my first program when I was 18. (That's not exactly true - I wrote several GWBasic programs in high school  .) Even though I have been working with (and learning from) them for the past 4 years, I still have a way to go before I catch up with them. The "experience factor" is huge, IMHO.
Jon Sagara
Hi! I'm Melanoma, Moley Russell's wart.
-- Uncle Buck
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Just when i have a look at the results...
the average seems to be above the average... 
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Thats because the average developer at CodeProject is into self-improvement and has great resources to use and learn from.
I am willing to bet that the average developer at everyones workplace does not effectively use CodeProject to become "above averaage".
Its all relative
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day
Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life!
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