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Lucky, lucky you 
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons
Cowboy Bebop
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Yeah I guess. But they know they can always count on me. 
--
Shine, enlighten me - shine
Shine, awaken me - shine
Shine for all your suffering - shine
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Are they potentially on CP? 
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons
Cowboy Bebop
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One of them is actually.
--
Shine, enlighten me - shine
Shine, awaken me - shine
Shine for all your suffering - shine
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Nice nice employers (show them this message) 
Philip Patrick
Web-site: www.stpworks.com
"Two beer or not two beer?" Shakesbeer
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Unfortunately I know the exhaustion of working long hours.
Not only do I wake up early, 5:30 AM and then work til 4:00 PM (no lunch either). I then get the pleasure of training people for Kung Fu. When this is done between 8 and 10 PM, I get to go home and work from there while I prepare food for another couple of hours. I then try to work on some side projects or my website. I do this while I try to read and learn the newset techs out there.. If I am lucky I am in bed by Midnight, if I am lucky, very lucky... Saturday and Sunday are a minimum of 8 hours of work for the company.
This happens because our company is small and, becuase of the economy, cash strapped. Every project and development goal is critical to keep my fellow man employed which I have to take seriously. I am the lead software engineer and the only windows programmer (not that I feel that I am ready for this because my previous full contact Kung Fu fighting career put me way behind the current technologies and the only place I can discuss issues is with people on the web. You have to see what my boss thinks a splash screen is... aargh.), but I am forcing myself to do it. Even if I do get laid off every other week...  ..
All this and they think five paid days off as a starting package is better than great (by the way that is vacation, personal, and sick time all wrapped up in those five days... and no Comp Time) So I haven't taken a real vacation or sick time either for over a year. Not that I could with all the weeks being laid off... Not going to say whether I worked during those periods either... Take a guess...
If you start a fire for a man, he will be warm for a day. If you start that same man on fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life.
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You are being seriously taken advantage of, here.
Our sympathies ![Rose | [Rose]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif) .
Software Zen: delete this;
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I would agree with this. I fall under the category of I have been assimilated. I think I have hit the point of writing code in my sleep, actually some of my best ideas of have come about that way.
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Wow, I pity on you. 
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Okay, your byline made my day!
C++/MFC/InstallShield since 1993
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8 at the bank and 4 leading MS Courses !
... I´m so tired.... 
Mauricio Ritter - Brazil
Sonorking now: 100.13560 MRitter
Life is a mixture of painful separations from your loved ones and joyful reunions, without those two we'd just be animals I guess. The more painful the separation, that much more wonderful will be the reunion - Nish
"Th@ langwagje is screwed! It has if's but no end if's!! Stupid php cant even do butuns on forms! VISHAUL BASICS ARE THE FUTSHURE!" - Simon Walton
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just the number of hours spent in the office. There's a big difference!
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minus CP time... which is partly work research, partly social life, partly addiction... 
I may try to delete my CP cookies. But its almost like tossing the keys of the appartment into the river. - Andreas Saurwein
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If we put the hours surfing cp, many of us would have been assimilated!
What a strange people this coders...
Just three words: void main(void)
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Just curious : in belgium, a normal *working* week counts between 35 and 40 hours (legally), which doesn't mean that people don't work more hours. But a normal employee is paid for that amount of time
How is this in other countries ?
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Hi,
here in Germany it's mostly the same thing (35-40 hours), but in my job you should do some homework (I mean, try to stay up to date with the latest changes and so on...)
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Here in the US, a minimum of 35 hours a week is considered "full time" and entitles you to "full time benefits", such as accruing vacation, sick time, and medical benefits.
Nobody says anything about working 50+ hours/wk, although some companies have (or used to have) "comp time" which was time you could take off without dinging your vacation time. Regardless of how many megahours you had worked extra, "comp time" seemed to end up being "take the afternoon off".
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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In Spain, the legal working week is 40 hours, (distributed as the company needs), but in programming bussines and others like this, is normal to stay one extra hour or so, just for free, just because you are compromised with your job and responsability.
In so many companies it has just became a standar situation.
In the other shore, people working in production jobs and so on or for the public administration, just work for their 8 hours a day, and go home to rest.
This is quite interesting, but I'm more interested on the following issue:
I give to the state 17% of my money every month in "personal rent tax" concept, and the 4.50% in "social security" concept plus a 1.50% in "unemployed maintenance" concept.
I'm not complainning about it, when I get sick I have one of the best medical attention in Europe, and people without money can get a new lung for free. Also people old than 65 doesn't pay for medicines. And also, people without father or mother or both, like me and many others, can study and so on, cause they get an economical compensation from the state until they are 18.
I'm very interesting in know how is this in other countrys?
Just three words: void main(void)
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conversion::magro wrote:
I'm not complainning about it, when I get sick I have one of the best medical attention in Europe, and people without money can get a new lung for free. Also people old than 65 doesn't pay for medicines. And also, people without father or mother or both, like me and many others, can study and so on, cause they get an economical compensation from the state until they are 18.
That sounds a lot like here, in Denmark, execpt we pay a lot more in tax.
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Anders Molin wrote:
That sounds a lot like here, in Denmark, execpt we pay a lot more in tax.
Yeah!, and I guess your rent 'per capita' and life level is highest than Spain nowadays.
I think in netherlands are world's most advanced democracies and social systems.
I've worked with people from Kopenhagen and there is a lot of good things in this country. You don't know how hard is for example buying or renting a house in Spain today.
Just three words: void main(void)
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I live in Italy and the (less then small) company is mine.
I give from 50% to 56% in taxes, I'll have to pay pc, software, heating, electric power and so on (the office is mine but there are taxes also on it).
I ask 50 Euro per hour (but not every hour is payed, for example the time spent to convince the customer to order a software), I have a wife and 2 sons, I don't take in account the time form 7:00 am to 10:30 pm I have my cell phone on to support customer, how many hours per week I have to work to let them eat three times a day?
Davide
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I understand you, but I know freelance and stand alone working people here, and they're complaining about the same thing.
I think Italy is very similar to Spain nowadays, in fact, our current governments are very similar, (berlusconi & aznar).
Taxes are very high for small companies, I don't know if this is the right way but this is what we got...
Do you think small companies would have to pay less taxes?
I guees medium and big ones are paying my salary, and an amount equal to this to the state, then if I earn 10, they pay 10 to me and 10 to the state, and also I pay 3 more by my own.
Someone has to mantain the state, isn't it?.
Just three words: void main(void)
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if you are in Romania and if you are a software developer(a some athor jobs close related to software developement) you will pay 0% state taxe ( instead of 40% all other jobs ) but in Romania sadly this money goes to the employer not to the employe as the law say so ...
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Europe coutries' citizens are lucky people. We don't get that much of benefits in Malaysia. I do envy you guys. 
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conversion::magro wrote:
I give to the state 17% of my money every month in "personal rent tax" concept, and the 4.50% in "social security" concept plus a 1.50% in "unemployed maintenance" concept.
I'm not complainning about it, [...]
Whoa - feel lucky!
In Germany almost half of my brutto income is taken for social security, unemployment insurance and tax.
The exact percentage varies with the salary, but with the normal income in IT industry, it should be somewhere in the high 40ies.
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
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