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just the number of hours spent in the office. There's a big difference!
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minus CP time... which is partly work research, partly social life, partly addiction... 
I may try to delete my CP cookies. But its almost like tossing the keys of the appartment into the river. - Andreas Saurwein
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If we put the hours surfing cp, many of us would have been assimilated!
What a strange people this coders...
Just three words: void main(void)
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Just curious : in belgium, a normal *working* week counts between 35 and 40 hours (legally), which doesn't mean that people don't work more hours. But a normal employee is paid for that amount of time
How is this in other countries ?
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Hi,
here in Germany it's mostly the same thing (35-40 hours), but in my job you should do some homework (I mean, try to stay up to date with the latest changes and so on...)
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Here in the US, a minimum of 35 hours a week is considered "full time" and entitles you to "full time benefits", such as accruing vacation, sick time, and medical benefits.
Nobody says anything about working 50+ hours/wk, although some companies have (or used to have) "comp time" which was time you could take off without dinging your vacation time. Regardless of how many megahours you had worked extra, "comp time" seemed to end up being "take the afternoon off".
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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In Spain, the legal working week is 40 hours, (distributed as the company needs), but in programming bussines and others like this, is normal to stay one extra hour or so, just for free, just because you are compromised with your job and responsability.
In so many companies it has just became a standar situation.
In the other shore, people working in production jobs and so on or for the public administration, just work for their 8 hours a day, and go home to rest.
This is quite interesting, but I'm more interested on the following issue:
I give to the state 17% of my money every month in "personal rent tax" concept, and the 4.50% in "social security" concept plus a 1.50% in "unemployed maintenance" concept.
I'm not complainning about it, when I get sick I have one of the best medical attention in Europe, and people without money can get a new lung for free. Also people old than 65 doesn't pay for medicines. And also, people without father or mother or both, like me and many others, can study and so on, cause they get an economical compensation from the state until they are 18.
I'm very interesting in know how is this in other countrys?
Just three words: void main(void)
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conversion::magro wrote:
I'm not complainning about it, when I get sick I have one of the best medical attention in Europe, and people without money can get a new lung for free. Also people old than 65 doesn't pay for medicines. And also, people without father or mother or both, like me and many others, can study and so on, cause they get an economical compensation from the state until they are 18.
That sounds a lot like here, in Denmark, execpt we pay a lot more in tax.
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Anders Molin wrote:
That sounds a lot like here, in Denmark, execpt we pay a lot more in tax.
Yeah!, and I guess your rent 'per capita' and life level is highest than Spain nowadays.
I think in netherlands are world's most advanced democracies and social systems.
I've worked with people from Kopenhagen and there is a lot of good things in this country. You don't know how hard is for example buying or renting a house in Spain today.
Just three words: void main(void)
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I live in Italy and the (less then small) company is mine.
I give from 50% to 56% in taxes, I'll have to pay pc, software, heating, electric power and so on (the office is mine but there are taxes also on it).
I ask 50 Euro per hour (but not every hour is payed, for example the time spent to convince the customer to order a software), I have a wife and 2 sons, I don't take in account the time form 7:00 am to 10:30 pm I have my cell phone on to support customer, how many hours per week I have to work to let them eat three times a day?
Davide
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I understand you, but I know freelance and stand alone working people here, and they're complaining about the same thing.
I think Italy is very similar to Spain nowadays, in fact, our current governments are very similar, (berlusconi & aznar).
Taxes are very high for small companies, I don't know if this is the right way but this is what we got...
Do you think small companies would have to pay less taxes?
I guees medium and big ones are paying my salary, and an amount equal to this to the state, then if I earn 10, they pay 10 to me and 10 to the state, and also I pay 3 more by my own.
Someone has to mantain the state, isn't it?.
Just three words: void main(void)
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if you are in Romania and if you are a software developer(a some athor jobs close related to software developement) you will pay 0% state taxe ( instead of 40% all other jobs ) but in Romania sadly this money goes to the employer not to the employe as the law say so ...
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Europe coutries' citizens are lucky people. We don't get that much of benefits in Malaysia. I do envy you guys. 
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conversion::magro wrote:
I give to the state 17% of my money every month in "personal rent tax" concept, and the 4.50% in "social security" concept plus a 1.50% in "unemployed maintenance" concept.
I'm not complainning about it, [...]
Whoa - feel lucky!
In Germany almost half of my brutto income is taken for social security, unemployment insurance and tax.
The exact percentage varies with the salary, but with the normal income in IT industry, it should be somewhere in the high 40ies.
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
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Yeah!!
But Germany has a very good social system, isn't it?
My mother expent his childhood in frankfurt (15 years) and she is always singing the goods of German social system, schools and so on...
I think is a good think to pay this taxes.
In Spain I pay more or less 20% of my brutto, but the employer company has to pay +-40 of my brutto to the state.
Just three words: void main(void)
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Country: Hungary
Employment status: Senior Project Lead (working in the industry since 1989)
Salary: less than 4000 Euro
Tax: 40%
Social security tax: 12%
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Yes, but are you paying this 52% direcly? or is the employer paying for you?
I know is a litle difference, but in Spain I pay +-20% but the employer has to pay a lot to have employees subscribed in the social security system.
I mean, even though I pay that 20%, is quite hard to be a employer here.
Just three words: void main(void)
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Yes, this is what I pay - my employer has to pay about the same amount again - So the real cost for having me employed are much higer (at leas 1.5 times) of my brutto salary.
So employers think twice if they want to hire someone, because this system rewards 'employing' machines.
And while our social security system may be one of the best in the world, it has been showing some symptoms of overstrain in the last years: Dental work is only paied 50%, We have to pay part of the pharmacy bill. So we recieve less every year, but the amount of money we pay does not shrink.
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
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Yes, I'm paying it directly.
My employer pays additional 39%
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Tokyo, Japan.
Working day: 9AM-6PM. The one hour lunch break is not calculated as work for the salary. So an "official" working day is only 8 hours.
Almost everybody does overwork - it's almost a shame to leave at 6PM and it's not very recommended to leave before your direct manager - and many companies do not pay for extra time spent in the office. Usually I work from 9AM to 8PM. I almost never leave before 7PM and sometimes I stay up to 11PM (special cases). So my weekly average is somewhere between 55-60 hours. But I like my job (.NET) so basically nobody tells me "don't go home". I just stay because it's challenging and I don't like to go home before solving "that" problem.
Probably I am half assimilated. 
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KL, Malaysia.
Working day: 9AM-6PM. The one hour lunch break is not calculated as work for the salary. So an "official" working day is only 8 hours.
Situation about the same in Malaysia.
Almost everybody does overwork - it's almost a shame to leave at 6PM and it's not very recommended to leave before your direct manager - and many companies do not pay for extra time spent in the office.
This only applicable to knowledge workers, management employees and the employers. Operational or administrative employees are normally punctual workers. (At least in my company)
I work till roughly 7pm every week day. Later than that are mostly some exceptions.
I would say normally Programmer = Assimilated Being
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I really appreciate your feedback, but what about social security system in Japan?
I think is very interesting for European people to know how are taxes and social prestations in your country.
Thanks.
(My litle brother love Japanese things, so many guys between 15-20 is suffering a "Japanization" here in spain (he is even studying kanjis and his t-shirts use to show some japanese letters and so on), yeah I know our cultures are very different. You know, manga, video games and Japan culture, are driving crazy so many young people here..., I comment you cause I am very surprised about it)
Just three words: void main(void)
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It seems that you live with the (false) impression that I am a Japanese guy 
I have to disappoint you  I am from Europe and I am a temporary resident of Japan. Working here as a software developer.
Yes, Japan is a wonderful country if you like work The people really appreciate your efforts and you can see that harder you push, more recognition you gain. Of course you don't have time for anything else during the five days working week (usually nobody tells you this when they hire you ) ... but if you are willing to pay this price, then you will REALLY enjoy the weekends 
And now to the eternal problem... taxes
The Health Insurance is officially 8.5% of the taxable income and covers 80% of expenses. 4.25% are paid by the employee and 4.25% are paid by the company.
The Pension (Social Security) is 17.35% of the taxable income, including 8.675% paid by the employee and 8.675% paid by the company.
The Unemployment Tax is 0.8%. (I'm not very sure about this)
The Income Tax is about 10% for a salary of 6,000,000Y/year (about 50,000USD). The figures change with your salary and there are lots of things taken into account including bonuses, dependants and so on.
---
So we have: 4.25+8.675+0.8+10=23.725%
You have to add to these Social Insurance taxes (which are decent compared to some European countries) the National Tax and the Local Tax. I have no clear idea how much they are... something like 20%+3% of the Taxable Income, maybe more... too much anyway.
Not quite related to the salary, but good to know, is the consumption tax: 5%.
I'm tired of all these taxes... going back to work 
.x.
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