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I ![Heart | [heart]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/love.gif) VS2015! Especially for Xamarin.
/ravi
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2017 has Xamarin too btw. And probably better tooling.
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True. And I would upgrade if it didn't require Win8+. 
/ravi
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took me by suprise your comment.
yeah checking Sys Requirements: Win7 sp1, win 8.1, Win10.
does Win8.0 have some horrible flaw that microsoft do not even support it?
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MAYBE they are considered one and the same - as far as I know (very little indeed about Win8) the main difference between 8 and 8.1 is in the GUI.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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I would say that it is more or less like a service pack...
Philippe Mori
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Bringing out a new version of VS every two years may be good for your profitability but it is killing your customers, all of the programmers and developers that use it.
We don't need More frequent Releases of VS versions, we need better (more bug free, stable and reduced learning curve) versions. 
I am near the end of my career so I plan of sticking with VS2015. (with all of its' flaws and yes it has plenty..) Give me the poison I just learned...
On the same general subject, fragmentation is the major problem with our industry. I know the Old Testament is not popular with the millennials and hipsters in our ranks but think "Tower of Babel" before designing a "New" Language, Tool, etc.
Cranky Old Men (and women) Unite!
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"Tower of Babel" triggered me. Sure, there are plenty of programming languages. Maybe to much. I'm also seeing the end of my career coming nearer and nearer, but that does not mean that I'm not willing to learn a new programming language, as long as it is handy and readable.
Joop Muis
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I wasn't implying that I am unwilling to learn a new language or use a new tool. Nor that any other programmer/developer be willing. It is our profession and we need to do what we have to, in order to get the job done.
I myself am learning / teaching myself C# as I am re-writing my software package that started life as a GW-BASIC, Flat file database (that I developed), in 1979. Over the years, the code went to Visual Basic from the first version to VB6, and the database to Microsoft ACCESS, and Microsoft SQL Server.
I am doing this so that my remaining clients all of whom have been with me more than 10 years will be able to find someone to support the code after I am gone. More C# programmers that VB programmers these days.
The point I was trying to make is that every engineer THINKS he can build a better mousetrap but only 1 in a million or so, actually can. I have no issues with creation of a new Language think Quantum Computing, where there is a demonstrated need for that language.
Most of the fools out there creating new languages are doing it for reasons of ego, when there is no real need for the language they created. Just because you "can" does not mean that you "Should". To put it another way, Different is not usually "better", it's just different.
Illegimati Non Carborundum!
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I have been developing with VS 2015 since it's unveiling. When I engaged it I was just coming back into coding after being pulled away to manage for a while with a prior employer. I enjoy coding and was really stressing with the total lack of code before. Some mix would have been doable but it took a job change to get me back in the saddle.
That said, change for change sake isn't always a positive thing. Change for cause. The job was one for cause. I jumped on VS 2015 because it was just hitting the street and I didn't want to ramp up on something aging out sooner rather than later.
I've been watching VS 2017 real close and I think based on looking at what is going on in the 2015 platform and the potentials I see this is a change for cause that I cam embrace without hesitation.
I have initiated my request to update my work environment and am just waiting for permission to make the move in the office.
Last night I uninstalled the last of my dev environment from my home system and will load up 2017 when I get home tonight. For me it is time to turn the page and this gives me a leg up for when I'm allowed to swap out 17 for 15 at the office.
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My shop is a mixture of vendor (large programs) and in-house programs (mostly small programs, some large), and we've recently dealt with ancient vendor code most recently compiled in an out-of-support IDE. It wouldn't compile in a new-ish IDE, requiring significant effort on the part of the vendor to update it. This is critical software so having it not updateable is not acceptable. [No, I don't believe the standards under which this software was originally written would be acceptable to most.]
Our unofficial policy is wait until the new IDE has a stable service pack and receives good reviews. New programs are then written in the new IDE and the oldest programs are recompiled in it. It's not painless but it solves more problems than it produces. Backwards compatibility is limited (try compiling VS 2005 programs in VS 2013 or VS 2015) and we find it better to do upgrades on our schedule instead of when forced by other conditions.
Realistically we'll be supporting the current IDE (once it is stable in our opinion) plus 2 or 3 revs back, with the third rev being phased out.
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Well, it's better than all the sex I get all on my ownsome.
Immanentize the Eschaton!
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... but for now my understanding is that it won't (needs 8.1) so won't be changing my op.system just to get the latest VS. Yes, I'm really on 8(.0). It's stable and does what I need (apart from running VS2017  ) so why would I risk a change?
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DerekTP123 wrote: so why would I risk a change?
That much fear?
It's like sticking to Vista when you have Windows 7. Been to 8.0, 8.1 and thank God, now in 10. So, so much better.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Fear? Not much, no. But if it ain't broke - and it isn't - why "fix" it? At an absolute minimum, I would have the learning curve to contend with. Then I've got to do all that research to find out how to STOP Win10 telling MS everything I'm doing. (Not paranoid, but even on a fast broadband I don't want everything clogging up when it's of zero value to me, and sometimes I'm on a metered connection). At worst - and there are plenty who've experienced this, even if it is a small percentage - my pc becomes unuseable, (due to non-startable, or hardware incompatabilities, or driver issues, or needing to upgrade other components I rely on). Plus there's the financial cost of an upgrade license.
At some point I'll presumably need to replace my 4-year old machine, and then I'll almost certainly take the grief of learning Windows all over again. (And certainly the grief of re-installing all the tools I use, and at that point "upgrading" to VS2017 (so long as it can still run all my legacy solutions unchanged). Until then, no thanks.
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DerekTP123 wrote: But if it ain't broke - and it isn't - why "fix" it?
IMO, Windows 8 is broke. Terrible usability. You'd be surprised how more productive you can be Windows 10. Windows 8 was made for tablets, very poor design decisions.
DerekTP123 wrote: Then I've got to do all that research to find out how to STOP Win10 telling MS everything I'm doing.
I am with you there, it's a lot harder actually. But I don't mind. I'm lucky enough not have a metered connection. I don't feel any network performance issues. I am on a 50Mbps connection.
DerekTP123 wrote: due to non-startable, or hardware incompatabilities, or driver issues,
Windows 10 got a lot better on this, it actually fixed some of my driver issues. But it may not be your case. Beware that January 9th next your you will no longer receive patches as support will end.
DerekTP123 wrote: ). Plus there's the financial cost of an upgrade license.
It was free, until mid last year, so yeah. That ship is sailed and you would have to pay now.
DerekTP123 wrote: grief of learning Windows all over again
It's actually painless. It's much more how we used to do before Windows 8. Easier in every way. I do agree that learning Windows 8 was a real pain.
DerekTP123 wrote: grief of re-installing all the tools I use
Not really necessary. Upgrade is seamless.
Windows 10, is better, faster and easier to use. But hey, you will get there eventually and I am pretty sure you will regret not having done it sooner
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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usability is fine. I have a 3rd party Start menu installed, works just like it used to in XP, as does almost everything else (though some things like changing wifi connections is really clunky and very slow). Always startup in Desktop mode, never touch the useless and broken "apps", which as far as I can tell don't actually "do" anything.
The re-installing of tools would be necessary if moving to a new PC, which is the only reason I'd ever have for switching to Win10.
However very glad to hear that Win10 works for you!
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No more VS for me since more than a year.
Still celebrating...
I am very happy with my change to Android Studio and I do not plan to use Xamarin and other strange frameworks in the foreseeable future.
Luckily I am in the situation to develop exclusive for the Android platform and I do not need any other DevEnv.
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Mike Barthold wrote: uckily I am in the situation to develop exclusive for the Android
How do you do it? I have so many IDE's and frameworks. Maybe I am just a junkie, but can't seem to be able to stick to one thing.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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I develop since 1984, have seen many things from assembler over basic to C, C++, back to basic, again to C(#), then Java, and so on and so on. When you get stone-old like me it's getting easier to leave things behind and say to yourself "Well, ok. Finished. I won't use my energy anymore on this."
I have nothing to win when sticking to all available technologies.
Will I outdate myself with this approach sooner or later? Likely.
But I do not plan to develop software for another 20 years. I already can see a (little) light at the end of the tunnel where I will leave ALL that business behind and reorganize myself a bit more back-to-the-roots.
At one point, after 30+ years of double-fulltime development (means: in the job AND private projects  ) you have seen every class, you have written every loop, every pattern and every condition a thousand times. There's nothing new here, it's just the same Lego-pieces put together differently over and over again.
So I stepped back a bit and found a decision of "which tech will it be where I will spend the last years of professional development?" And then I had the big luck here at my company, that I could more or less freely decide, whether I'd go with apple, google or microsoft as we develop for all platforms, but different things.
And as I couldn't decide between Apple and Microsoft, which of them I hate more, Google/Android/Java was the (for me) logical choice. So I took over the Android dev team and now I make that.
Maybe it will change (again), when the next big super-duper-windows-thing is developed. Maybe not. Maybe I make "only" the architect for the teams, maybe I develop actively for windows again. I do not know today, and from this point of view, it's exclusively Android.
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Wow, thanks for this great insight.
Mike Barthold wrote: double-fulltime development (means: in the job AND private projects )
Hey, that's me now
Mike Barthold wrote: At one point, after 30+
Maybe that will be me 
Mike Barthold wrote: t's just the same Lego-pieces put together differently over and over again.
Yeah, I get that, that's why it is so easy to learn anything "new" that comes up. Still, I can't fight the urge to do it.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Need to explore VS17 soon and will install, only if the performance is good.
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I find VS2017 to be quite fast at doing pretty much everything. Startup takes a few seconds, compared to the 3+ minutes VS2015 takes on the same machine (Quad Core i7 [8 logical cores], 24GB RAM, SSD). MSVC2017 also compiles working executables (MSVC2015 often compiled programs that would end up crashing with a library loading error).
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism.
Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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Thanks for the info 
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One of our projects is a VS2017 extension, so that will have to be built by VS2017 (use an earlier version and you get a compatibility warning when installing it because of the VSIX v3 changes).
The rest are all VS2013 for the most part, and we're in no hurry to change that just yet (the redists are nice and simple etc.). The end result is a VS2017 solution with a mix of VS2013 and VS2017 projects, plus a pile of custom build/installer scripts.
Anna ( @annajayne)
Tech Blog | Visual Lint
"Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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