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... but for now my understanding is that it won't (needs 8.1) so won't be changing my op.system just to get the latest VS. Yes, I'm really on 8(.0). It's stable and does what I need (apart from running VS2017  ) so why would I risk a change?
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DerekTP123 wrote: so why would I risk a change?
That much fear?
It's like sticking to Vista when you have Windows 7. Been to 8.0, 8.1 and thank God, now in 10. So, so much better.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Fear? Not much, no. But if it ain't broke - and it isn't - why "fix" it? At an absolute minimum, I would have the learning curve to contend with. Then I've got to do all that research to find out how to STOP Win10 telling MS everything I'm doing. (Not paranoid, but even on a fast broadband I don't want everything clogging up when it's of zero value to me, and sometimes I'm on a metered connection). At worst - and there are plenty who've experienced this, even if it is a small percentage - my pc becomes unuseable, (due to non-startable, or hardware incompatabilities, or driver issues, or needing to upgrade other components I rely on). Plus there's the financial cost of an upgrade license.
At some point I'll presumably need to replace my 4-year old machine, and then I'll almost certainly take the grief of learning Windows all over again. (And certainly the grief of re-installing all the tools I use, and at that point "upgrading" to VS2017 (so long as it can still run all my legacy solutions unchanged). Until then, no thanks.
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DerekTP123 wrote: But if it ain't broke - and it isn't - why "fix" it?
IMO, Windows 8 is broke. Terrible usability. You'd be surprised how more productive you can be Windows 10. Windows 8 was made for tablets, very poor design decisions.
DerekTP123 wrote: Then I've got to do all that research to find out how to STOP Win10 telling MS everything I'm doing.
I am with you there, it's a lot harder actually. But I don't mind. I'm lucky enough not have a metered connection. I don't feel any network performance issues. I am on a 50Mbps connection.
DerekTP123 wrote: due to non-startable, or hardware incompatabilities, or driver issues,
Windows 10 got a lot better on this, it actually fixed some of my driver issues. But it may not be your case. Beware that January 9th next your you will no longer receive patches as support will end.
DerekTP123 wrote: ). Plus there's the financial cost of an upgrade license.
It was free, until mid last year, so yeah. That ship is sailed and you would have to pay now.
DerekTP123 wrote: grief of learning Windows all over again
It's actually painless. It's much more how we used to do before Windows 8. Easier in every way. I do agree that learning Windows 8 was a real pain.
DerekTP123 wrote: grief of re-installing all the tools I use
Not really necessary. Upgrade is seamless.
Windows 10, is better, faster and easier to use. But hey, you will get there eventually and I am pretty sure you will regret not having done it sooner 
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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usability is fine. I have a 3rd party Start menu installed, works just like it used to in XP, as does almost everything else (though some things like changing wifi connections is really clunky and very slow). Always startup in Desktop mode, never touch the useless and broken "apps", which as far as I can tell don't actually "do" anything.
The re-installing of tools would be necessary if moving to a new PC, which is the only reason I'd ever have for switching to Win10.
However very glad to hear that Win10 works for you!
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No more VS for me since more than a year.
Still celebrating...
I am very happy with my change to Android Studio and I do not plan to use Xamarin and other strange frameworks in the foreseeable future.
Luckily I am in the situation to develop exclusive for the Android platform and I do not need any other DevEnv.
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Mike Barthold wrote: uckily I am in the situation to develop exclusive for the Android
How do you do it? I have so many IDE's and frameworks. Maybe I am just a junkie, but can't seem to be able to stick to one thing.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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I develop since 1984, have seen many things from assembler over basic to C, C++, back to basic, again to C(#), then Java, and so on and so on. When you get stone-old like me it's getting easier to leave things behind and say to yourself "Well, ok. Finished. I won't use my energy anymore on this."
I have nothing to win when sticking to all available technologies.
Will I outdate myself with this approach sooner or later? Likely.
But I do not plan to develop software for another 20 years. I already can see a (little) light at the end of the tunnel where I will leave ALL that business behind and reorganize myself a bit more back-to-the-roots.
At one point, after 30+ years of double-fulltime development (means: in the job AND private projects  ) you have seen every class, you have written every loop, every pattern and every condition a thousand times. There's nothing new here, it's just the same Lego-pieces put together differently over and over again.
So I stepped back a bit and found a decision of "which tech will it be where I will spend the last years of professional development?" And then I had the big luck here at my company, that I could more or less freely decide, whether I'd go with apple, google or microsoft as we develop for all platforms, but different things.
And as I couldn't decide between Apple and Microsoft, which of them I hate more, Google/Android/Java was the (for me) logical choice. So I took over the Android dev team and now I make that.
Maybe it will change (again), when the next big super-duper-windows-thing is developed. Maybe not. Maybe I make "only" the architect for the teams, maybe I develop actively for windows again. I do not know today, and from this point of view, it's exclusively Android.
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Wow, thanks for this great insight.
Mike Barthold wrote: double-fulltime development (means: in the job AND private projects )
Hey, that's me now
Mike Barthold wrote: At one point, after 30+
Maybe that will be me 
Mike Barthold wrote: t's just the same Lego-pieces put together differently over and over again.
Yeah, I get that, that's why it is so easy to learn anything "new" that comes up. Still, I can't fight the urge to do it.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Need to explore VS17 soon and will install, only if the performance is good.
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I find VS2017 to be quite fast at doing pretty much everything. Startup takes a few seconds, compared to the 3+ minutes VS2015 takes on the same machine (Quad Core i7 [8 logical cores], 24GB RAM, SSD). MSVC2017 also compiles working executables (MSVC2015 often compiled programs that would end up crashing with a library loading error).
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism.
Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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Thanks for the info 
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One of our projects is a VS2017 extension, so that will have to be built by VS2017 (use an earlier version and you get a compatibility warning when installing it because of the VSIX v3 changes).
The rest are all VS2013 for the most part, and we're in no hurry to change that just yet (the redists are nice and simple etc.). The end result is a VS2017 solution with a mix of VS2013 and VS2017 projects, plus a pile of custom build/installer scripts.
Anna ( @annajayne)
Tech Blog | Visual Lint
"Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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but at work.. still VS 2013 .. not gona change that fast..
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We're currently nearing releasing the latest version of the product. Once it's out and stable then we'll look to upgrade to VS 2017
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
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We are dependent on 3rd party libraries.
We will upgrade to VS2017 when those libraries are updated.
I'd rather be phishing!
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Yes when Resharper 2017 is released. 
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Maximilien wrote: We are dependent on 3rd party libraries.
That does not change with VS2017. Unless you're talking about VS extensions, you can still stick with libraries and frameworks of your current solution, VS2017 won't break that.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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I don't want to risk breaking anything until the project I'm on hits a release deadline; afterwards depends on exactly what I'm doing.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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I shouldn't break anything with your current project. It's an IDE. I've been working on a side project since 2010 (using VS2010) and have upgraded to every version of VS when it came out with no problems. Even updated the .NET target framework. No Problems.
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I don't think a major problem is *likely* (although see yesterdays lounge thread about needing to update nuget for VS2015 if you keep both versions); but in crunch time even if all goes well I can't afford an hour to update tools and figure out how to find whatever minor bits were randomly moved; never mind the low probability risk of something going seriously wrong.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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I used VS2003 - VS2008 back a ways. I may even get around to installing some version the in the new box I got. Which version? Hmmmmmm.
I was already sort of tired of getting used to them.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I will not upgrade. Given the enormous problems that VisualStudio 2015 is giving me just at this moment, I don't ever want to see the next incarnation of that junk. Not that this a new issue. I think it was VS2008 where I had my first encounter with a totally freaked out XAML designer that could not find the assembly and namespace of its own ass in the dark.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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OK - let's recast the question.
Will you be installing VS2017 or VB6 ? Choose!*
* Think of the original Ghost Busters if you like.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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