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I 100% agree with this sentiment. Up to now, web development has put development back to the 1970s. Finally, we have a very good platform to develop seriously rich, dynamic and full-featured web applications.
Cheers,
Karim.
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When .NET and C# appeared on the scenes, I thought well this is cool.
I always like new gizmos though!
However I have been rapidly losing interest, maybe the problem is I just haven't seen any good examples of its usage, It'd be silly to say I won't use it, when I can't predict the future.
But can someone point me to some real world examples of its usage.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:ColinI live in Bob's HungOut now
Click here for free technical assistance!
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I'm still waiting to see what is Microsoft's killer app for the .NET platform. All the rubbish in MSN Messenger hasn't really impressed me. I can see it making writing web based applications easier but that isn't really my field.
I just want to get Visual Studio 7 for the cool new IDE
Michael 
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Michael P Butler wrote:
I just want to get Visual Studio 7 for the cool new IDE
What do you mean by "cool" and "new"? Didn't you see a Visual Interdev before?
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There's a lot of differences between the Interdev and the VS.NET IDE...
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Anders Molin wrote:
There's a lot of differences between the Interdev and the VS.NET IDE...
"Differences" don't make a things "new", only different. And they don't make things cool. In case of Interdev any similiarities make it suck 
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George! Have you tried the IDE in VS.NET? For interests sake subjugate yourself to 10 minutes in the VB.NET or C#, write some code. Watch the "inline" syntax checking as well as the limited but very useful "logic" checking. It tells you basic stuff like you have not dimmed (declared) a variable without even having to build the app.
Also the Server Explorer and Data Connection panes are very useful. Even if .NET is a failure VS.NET is a real gem.
regards,
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
Do you Sonork? I do! 100.9903 Stormfront
"The greatest thing you will ever learn is to love, and be loved in return" - Moulin Rouge
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Paul Watson wrote:
Watch the "inline" syntax checking as well as the limited but very useful "logic" checking. It tells you basic stuff like you have not dimmed (declared) a variable without even having to build the app.
Gee, doesn't take much to impress the youngsters these days... 
These are not new and any user of Visual Assist can tell you that. From the VC++ point of view the new IDE is a major step back, MS have obviously been running out of time and in a hurry just picked up anything (Vis. Interdev) and adopt it for the needs.
Sure they have tabs and line numbers (after all these years!?) but that's also half assed implementation. If I compare the tabs with the WndTabs I use now in VC++ it makes me laungth as MS has not even copied the functionality properly...
All in all: Yuck!
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Only one word: block cursor for overwrite mode. Finally!!
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Yes!! I'm glad someone else is impressed by that as I was 
(small things, small minds I guess)
cheers,
Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
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I think we should differentiate .NET (the framework) and VS.NET (the development tool).
The tool may have a lot nice enhancements than the previous Visual Studio, but that kind of enhancement does not really require the framework. Thanks to Microsoft, we HAVE to work with .NET the framework in order to get any enhancement to our development tool.
By the way, I am not complaining. Miscrosoft has the right to make a lot more money than it already has.
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The fact that all the languages that I use are now hosted in the same enviroment. I can write my COM objects in C++/ATL and test in VB without having to launch another IDE. I'm sorry if you don't see this as cool and new but I've been waiting for years for Microsoft to do this.
Michael 
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Michael P Butler wrote:
The fact that all the languages that I use are now hosted in the same enviroment. I can write my COM objects in C++/ATL and test in VB without having to launch another IDE. I'm sorry if you don't see this as cool and new but I've been waiting for years for Microsoft to do this.
Yeah, and on the same basis you can use hammer to work with the screwes. I however would prefer to have hammer for nails and screw driver for screwes.
Essentially the choice of the common IDE to be very much like Visual Interdev obviously indicates the intent to push towards the "web applications", that doesn't suit the languages like C++. Each language has it's own properties and needs different IDE more often than not. What has been done is to limit languages to the common denominator, so while the idea may sound good when you take a look at it it stops being so cool.
Also, there is no backward compatibility as for the Addins, so it will all stop working now because of new IDE which I don't want because I was quite happy with the old one...
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I think that the new .NET framework and IDE are primarily geared towards those developers using current MS dev. tools.
And MOST of the C++ programmers I know don't think much of VC++6.0 and use CBuilder instead.
So, I see this as more of an upgrade for VB/Java/web developers than for hardcore C++ coders.
Only problem is: the kind of webpplications being written today are really frightening and I still see them being that, just on a different platform (.NET) and inside a different IDE (VS.NET).
My 2 cents: it doesn't matter what/where you write code ,just make sure that it's good.
Simon
"...Bill is watching..."
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"And MOST of the C++ programmers I know don't think much of VC++6.0 and use CBuilder instead."
Shirly - thou knowest few programmers of C++. Except possibly those who program for free and not for their daily bread. CBuilder - Ok wheres the punch line ?
Richard
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man.
- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
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simons wrote:
the kind of webpplications being written today are really frightening
I, for one, would agree with that.
"But, daddy, that was back in the hippie ages..." My twelve year old son - winning the argument.
"Stan, you are an intelligent guy who responds in meaningful ways" Paul Watson 16/10/01
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Maybe you should stick to Interdev instead? 
// Ema Nymton
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Ema Nymton wrote:
Maybe you should stick to Interdev instead?
Maybe you should think before you post?
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George wrote:
Maybe you should think before you post?
No need to get angry, all I wanted to say is that if you are so fond of your old IDE, you should stick to it and not use .NET at all. If the addins you are using does not work in the new IDE you could make the choise to not use the new IDE or get a new set of addins.
The whole .NET ideology seems to me that one should be able to write the same program in any language (as long it's .NET compatible) with the same IDE, simple as that. To be able to do that the IDE must also have the same capabilites for each language. Why should we have three different IDEs for three languages if they all are capable of the same thing?
// Ema Nymton
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Ema Nymton wrote:
Why should we have three different IDEs for three languages if they all are capable of the same thing?
And, having that, why would we need three languages any more?
Did it occur to you that we have all the different languages because they are, well, different?
Every language has it's powers and weaknesses, and every language has different purpose, syntax etc. They naturally require different IDE because what's good for VB doesn't make sense in C++ and vice versa.
If you put too much complexity into VB then you loose it's main advantage being a short learning curve. If you supply C++ with VB IDE you loose the main advantage of fine control over what's going on under the hood.
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George wrote:
If you put too much complexity into VB then you loose it's main advantage being a short learning curve. If you supply C++ with VB IDE you loose the main advantage of fine control over what's going on under the hood.
The problem with VB's RAD development lies in the fact that it's CBD(Component Based Development) methodology is too restrictive and doesn't allow the developers much power to fine tune stuff that VC++ users enjoy, as you rightly mentioned.
But this shouldn't be taken as a basis to conclude that RAD or CBD based IDE is to blame for VB's lack of power. In fact, for a long time C++, at least unofficially, has been supporting CBD methodology (such as properties, events etc.) using various Design Pattern paradigms. To become a devil's advocate, product like RadVC has used these C++ paradigms to implement RAD in native C++. This enables C++ developers to continue to exercise the full power and flexilibilty of native C++, yet making overall development a lot faster.
// Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++
http://www.capitolsoft.com
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I'm there!!
I love C++ and have no real interest in moving to C# at this time. That's not to say that I won't move in that direction when I see the ROI for learning the language.
I really do like the way the IDE has moved in the direction of InterDev though.
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