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If you'd asked me a couple of years ago, I would have said that commercial experience is really all that matters. However, having worked with between fifteen to twenty C++ programmers of various levels of experience, I have found that the programmers who produce the more maintainable and extensible code which fits the original design and have a clear grasp of the language are those that have a good computing degree.
Obviously, having commercial experience is very important, but I have had the "pleasure" of working with C++ programmers who still don't grasp the basics of simple design and the language they're using after four+ years experience.
Has anyone got contrary experience to mine
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I can tell the same from my experience. My experience is even worse, since I had a "pleasure" of being developer in the team lead by the guy with "commercial" experience but no academic background. It was really hard to explain to that guy the basic concepts of the development process and design - he pushed the "short fast way" (remember, the DARK SIDE is quick and easy), causing the problems I was to blame later on..
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I couldn't agree more. A BS/MS in comp science is necessary for all system developers although it would have been nicer if we had them for VC too. I guess it's hard to find guys with experience in systems programming working through GUI code  .
Sad to say most start ups fail as they don't have the acedemic edge of a Aho Ullman or a Tremblay. But all that matters in the end is how you apply them
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I couldn't agree more. A BS/MS in comp science is necessary for all system developers although it would have been nicer if we had them for VC too. I guess it's hard to find guys with experience in systems programming working through GUI code .
Sad to say most start ups fail as they don't have the acedemic edge of a Aho Ullman or a Tremblay. But all that matters in the end is how you apply them
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I'm glad you have that experience.
My experience from people that I had to deal with that got employed are that they are *severely* lacking crucial knowledge. Exmaples? No one of these had any experience in software _design_. Seven out of eight (and the eight knwe it out of private interest) knwe whar CRC was.
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A degree is of no importance to the quality of the programmer!
A guy who goes to school and sticks to the courses, will never be a good programmer.
On the other hand someone who reads, works and studies hard can become a good programmer in a timespan that is shorter than four or five years of university.
I have been studying veterinarian sciences, but finally became a programmer. I've seen students that will never be good veterinarians (sticking to the courses only), and I honestly can say that I am a better programmer than some guys with a degree in computer science.
It all depends on the person and the effort he's doing
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If someone wished to enter the IT industry and decided to get a tertiary qualification, what degree is the best
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Hi Chris and all!
Well, let's see now...a degree in computing. Hmmm...what do they teach at universities these days? If you're looking at the undergraduate or diploma courses, I would've thought they do a reasonably good job of doling out the goods. On the Masters level, it becomes more of a responsibility of the students...i.e., lots of researching and assignments to boot.
I was interested to see that most people have voted for industry experience. Hey, let's face it...these days, just about any guy hiring someone for job in the 'industry' demands the applicant have a degree...the higher, the better!! There seems to be a misguided notion that having a qualifcation implies he or she is better suited to the task. Let me at this point in time take a moment to indicate that most of the industry pioneers (good ol' Gates, Larry Ellision (Oracle), etc...none of them ever held a degree. But what they did have was a deep rooted desire to make the world a better place (or turn the world upside down as many would like to think!!).
But don't get me wrong...I'm not saying a degree is not required these days. They might *project* you as a better candidate for a job, but that projection is different from the real thing-atleast in most cases. What I'm saying is that they don't really spell that much benefit for folks who're left on the deep end of the pool in the real world. Honestly, tell me how many universities teach the intricacies of COM or similar topics deemed complex?? Most folks who know COM inside out probably did it the hard way-spending hours wading through books, getting answers from the source, researching on the internet, writing code...so many frustrations...oh and of course, the obligatory six month mental fog as Kraig Brockshmidt would have you know.
It looks like more often, the students do all the hard/fun stuff out of their own interest and the breakthroughs they acheive obviously enhance an institution's presence. Even a recent research held in Australia (and published in the papers) indicate that the current generation of students are more computer savvy than their mentors. Ours is unfortunately a highly volatile area. What is the craze today fades off tomorrow. That's one reason why it always makes sense to learn C++ as much as you can-it's never going to go away.
The bottom line is...in my opinion anyways...university degrees might sort of lay the very basic foundation, but after that, it really becomes a matter of learning on the fly in the industry. Of course, a degree also gives you a slight edge when applying for a job. Private institutions seem to focus on the core, can-be-immediately-put-to-use skills.
As for what degree is most useful...if you had just one take, then I'd say any degree heavy on programming and design (the names of degrees varies with universities, so I really am unable to comment on the exact name  Could be ideally a Bachelors in Computing. Sometimes you may find that related degrees might help you perform more efficiently in your area-for example, a degree in mathematics *might* bring you a whole new wealth of experience that you could put to use.
Looks like even algorithms these days come in cans (what with the STL!!). These days, one needs to know how to put it all together-all the while maintaining excellent design too. Of course, you can also supplement a degree with external studies at private institutions-in which case you'll be more ready to take on the real world (industry!!). Or should I say, more ready to get a job??
Well....at the end of the day, this topic is sure to raise as many yes'es as no's. It's the sort of thing where not all would agree at all on one answer.
So...the debate continues...
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Master Degree on some technical subject or math or phisics...
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