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DerekT-P wrote: Whilst they hold various portfolios I suspect they're too intelligent to rise any higher.
Probably because the ones that rise are mostly not the intelligent, but the charismatic who move masses.
M.D.V. 
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devenv.exe wrote: They are in cabinet or parliament, whatever you call it from your side.
Not from what I've seen.
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Some quote I saw in the 70s or 80s : "They who are smart enough to run the country are smart enough to stay out of politics."
And there's also Douglas Adams' view of politics as well -- "People are a problem".
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Hmm. I've never sought out intelligent people, other than those who were intelligent at getting along with others. I've encountered plenty of smart people whose intelligence was wasted because they were first-order asshats. I've also found folks in less-exalted societal positions who possessed profound wisdom. A good example is my car guy John, who barely finished high school and is largely self-taught. He has maintained my vehicles for 30+ years now. Part of any car repair is John showing the part(s) affected and explaining in detail what he had to do to fix the problem. I like John a lot, and his explanations have changed my driving habits on occasion.
As I've gotten older I've realized "smarts" aren't as important as the ability to get along, understand another's viewpoint, and to recognize that answers for me may not work for someone else.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary Wheeler wrote: I've never sought out intelligent people, other than those who were intelligent at getting along with others. I've encountered plenty of smart people whose intelligence was wasted because they were first-order asshats.
I think you hit the nail on the head man. And I see that getting along with folks takes a certain amount of both and also some introspection. You can be "dumb smart" as in you know a lot about a subject, but that's just being a parrot and repeating crap you memorize. Doesn't mean that person is a genius, etc. At best they'd be better than average about one particular subject only.
Gary Wheeler wrote: As I've gotten older I've realized "smarts" aren't as important as the ability to get along, understand another's viewpoint, and to recognize that answers for me may not work for someone else.
Agree buddy... well in theory. Don't think I'm mature enough to just ignore the fluff yet. Thar be a lot of it. And ultimately that's what's driving this sense of isolation I get. Like, I dunno about you, but even on CP I know I have very little in common with most people here. Once you've experience some things, you just know who lacks it ya know. And it's a lot of peeps. So, really hard to talk about something that you know for the rando on the only end is completely clueless about, but they swear they're not.
I'm learning to avoid it man... just reeeeeeaaaalllly slowly. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: I think you hit the nail on the head man
Obligatory Lazarus Long quote: It's amazing how much “mature wisdom” resembles being too tired.  Jeremy Falcon wrote: Don't think I'm mature enough to just ignore the fluff yet. Thar be a lot of it.
Yeah, I know. Some days it's just fun to feed the trolls and watch the carnage. See "watching the world burn" for reference.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary Wheeler wrote: Obligatory Lazarus Long quote: It's amazing how much “mature wisdom” resembles being too tired
Ha ha ha ha ha. Preach, brother. 
Gary Wheeler wrote: See "watching the world burn" for reference.
I wish it were fun. It used to be I guess. Real talk, I'm just tired and jaded now.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: but even on CP I know I have very little in common with most people here
That doesn't imply that there are not intelligent people here or that you are more intelligent as us 
M.D.V.
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Nelek wrote: That doesn't imply that there are not intelligent people here or that you are more intelligent as us
If you read the original post again that's why I said I can accept I may be the stupid one.
That being said, I do think experience is the real teacher in life. Those who are experienced in a field know when someone who is not is speaking. There's a lot of argumentative, inexperienced people here. And for that reason, I do feel as if I don't have much in common.
For instance, I've lived in Vegas... lived. Had some dude on CP argue about how nice Vegas is who's never been there. How foolish can people be? It's a waste of time and life energy.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: If you read the original post again that's why I said I can accept I may be the stupid one.
I did... but I still said for the sick of being a smartass
Jeremy Falcon wrote: I do think experience is the real teacher in life.
For me life is the teacher and experience is the result, but yes... I can go with that.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: For instance, I've lived in Vegas... lived. Had some dude on CP argue about how nice Vegas is who's never been there.
I have never been there, but alone for what I have seen in films and reportages, I don't think I'll ever visit it if I go to the US.
M.D.V.
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Nelek wrote: I have never been there, but alone for what I have seen in films and reportages, I don't think I'll ever visit it if I go to the US.
If you do, you'll be ok as long as you stay in the touristy spots. Vegas is like a ghetto (in mentality) but with money, so once you leave the touristy spots things change... even nice grocery stores will have used condoms in the parking lot, etc.
Jeremy Falcon
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Define intelligent.
I've known PHDs that didn't know which end of a screw driver was the usable end.
I've know expert carpenters that couldn't tell you who Einstein was.
Intelligence depends on the subject matter, most people could carry on an intelligent conversation in some area.
I don't think before I open my mouth, I like to be as surprised a everyone else.
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Mike Hankey wrote: I've known PHDs that didn't know which end of a screw driver was the usable end.
I've know expert carpenters that couldn't tell you who Einstein was.
I think what you're describing there is more education than intelligence.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Or knowledge?
M.D.V.
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Mike Hankey wrote: PHDs
Have heard of a Mathematics PhD, whose doctoral thesis was on mathematical simulation of a type of vortex flow in fluid mechanics, but who could not recognize such a flow happening in front of him, on a rainy day.
Aside, I am also a PhD holder, hopefully not like him 
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Mike Hankey wrote: didn't know which end of a screw driver was the usable end.
Both ends are usable for different tasks. Failing to recognize that a tool may be used for more than one task shows a lack of intelligence.
I frequently use the butt end of a screwdriver to push small nails into the wall to hang pictures. In fact, when I use a hammer to put a small nail in the wall, I use the handle, not the head. The butt end of a screwdriver is also useful for inserting model railroad spikes.
I was thinking about this again just yesterday in regards to an argument I was having which is essentially "can be used like" does not equal "is like". To wit, stating that a screwdriver can be used like a hammer is not the same as stating that a screwdriver is like a hammer or that they are equivalent.
It kind of came down to a point where I would characterize the other party's assertion as "two sets are equivalent if the intersection of the sets is not the null set" -- which is patently untrue. In other words, both a hammer and a screwdriver can be used to put small screws in a wall to hang pictures, but that doesn't make them equivalent, each can be used for other tasks.
A hammer can be used as a screwdriver only in the crudest sense, not very effectively.
If one could carry only a screwdriver or a hammer, the screwdriver is likely to be the better choice due to its flexibility.
modified 8-Nov-23 14:20pm.
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Sadly, there's a reason screwdrivers come with a warning saying not to use them as a hammer or a chisel.
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Oh, yeah, I forgot about that time I used a screwdriver when I was too lazy to go get a chisel.
I don't recall seeing any such warning.
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Mike Hankey wrote: Define intelligent.
Yeah, good point. There is more than one type of intelligence. Rather than retype what I typed, please check my other replies.
Mike Hankey wrote: I've known PHDs that didn't know which end of a screw driver was the usable end.
Mike Hankey wrote: I've know expert carpenters that couldn't tell you who Einstein was.
I see both of these people as intelligent (in theory), just in different areas of specialty. If they're both intelligent enough to not be asshats, are introspective, can communicate, etc. then there's still a certain level of intelligence exhibited by both.
Mike Hankey wrote: Intelligence depends on the subject matter, most people could carry on an intelligent conversation in some area.
I wish there were true. It's been my experience though, like with being online, too many folks are ill-experience and too immature to have a real conversation. Maybe the problem lies with me, maybe not. I just know for a fact a lot of peeps talk out of their arse when they're clueless.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: like with being online, too many folks are ill-experience and too immature to have a real conversation. Maybe the problem lies with me, maybe not. I just know for a fact a lot of peeps talk out of their arse when they're clueless.
It's funny when people get online they are very different people. They are not responsible for their actions and don't care what others think or how it affects them. In short they act like most people when they've had too much to drink, it brings out the inner Hyde in them.
I don't think before I open my mouth, I like to be as surprised a everyone else.
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Mike Hankey wrote: it brings out the inner Hyde in them.
1,000% agree. My theory is that most people aren't really happy. Some folks pretend to be. But few strive to be. So, it's their escape to release emotions they try and suppress to appear "normal".
Jeremy Falcon
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MacGyver intelligence: "how do you roll up a blind when all you have is a fork?"
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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Hold it against someone's throat and tell them to roll up the blind?
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Mike Hankey wrote: Intelligence depends on the subject matter, most people could carry on an intelligent conversation in some area.
I suspect deep subject matter tends to camouflage lack of intelligence, in many cases. Someone who knows SubjectX inside out can discuss it in depth, debate the grey areas, and come across as highly intelligent.
However I think true "intelligence" isn't related to depth of subject knowledge, but is related to (1) the ability to take on and understand new knowledge, and (2) to apply knowledge gained in one area to another area. It's to do with making the links from a known to an unknown field, and thereby multiplying the power of the knowledge they have. Finally I believe it requires a moral aspect that can then apply that understanding for the benefit of others.
Every once in a while you come across people who have achieved mind-bogglingly vast amounts in a single lifetime. To be able to achieve so much such people not only require great stamina, an outstanding drive to achieve, (and a complete absence of procrastination!) but also the ability to absorb and re-apply skills over and over again. Many people achieve much, but there seems to be a step-change in achievement levels that is barely understandable to mere mortals like myself.
(An example that comes to mind is Beatrix Potter. Many people will think of her as a children's book author. However most of her books were not for children; she was also a diarist (written in a cipher of her own invention), painter, illustrator, botanist (specialising in mycology - doing original research on fungal germination and hybridisation and publishing a paper on the subject), conservationist, pioneer of merchandising (her stuffed-toy Peter Rabbit was the very first licensed character), landowner, farmer, sheep breeder and judge, historian and more. All this at a time when women were not expected (and even allowed) to do some of these things; and travelling regularly between London, the Lake District and Scotland.)
[See Wikipedia[^]
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I mostly agree but I think the true sign of genius is imagination.
I don't think before I open my mouth, I like to be as surprised a everyone else.
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