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Gary R. Wheeler wrote: In effect, I've had a 32% pay cut over the last 10 years.
You mean when you figure inflation?
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Yes. It's a valid complaint when local salaries are close to keeping up with cost-of-living.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Why did you stay? Other companies have been paying more.
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Because when this started I was 50 years old. Tech companies don't hire 40-somethings, much less anyone older.
I'll be 62 in a month or so. If I were to be laid off now, I would milk the unemployment benefits as long as possible and then retire. It's possible I would try doing contract work to "keep my hand in" as it were and for grocery money.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Right behind you.
Would love to be looking / moving.
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Gary R. Wheeler wrote: Because when this started I was 50 years old.
Just put on a wig man and dye that hair green. You'll be good to go.
Gary R. Wheeler wrote: I'll be 62 in a month or so.
Congrats buddy.
And as sad as it may be, you are correct here. There are some companies that just want the young to crank out code quick and that's that. Sleep is for losers.
But that being said, on the business side... experience is totally valuable. Like only experience will teach you what pitfalls to watch out for before they happen. So, I'm sure there would be a few companies that find that useful. And to be honest, AI is about to replace the young code monkeys anyway.
Speaking of, prompt engineering is easy as crap. That's a high paying field. Experienced folks are perfect for that.
Anyway, FWIW I think you'd be totally awesome to work with. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks that way.
Jeremy Falcon
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Thanks Jeremy, for the kind words.
The good news is while the pay situation here has been "sub-optimal"  my boss is great and the work situation is pretty good.
Software Zen: delete this;
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It really varies.
My current company works hard to ensure at least some cost of living increases every year as well as bonuses and merit pay raises. They're also really good about giving you a pay raise when you're given new responsibilities.
My last company not only was known for firing highly paid employees (reorganizations) regardless of age and not giving pay raises. I went five years without a pay raise until I gave notice. Then they offered me more money.
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Your current company sounds like a great place to work. May I ask what you do, development, project manager, system administration?
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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I'm the Senior Information Officer for the Colorado School of Mines Foundation. We're a 501(c)(3) dedicated to raising private funding for the Colorado School of Mines. We're on the university's network and I work closely with the university's IT department to ensure our fundraisers aren't stymied by technology that doesn't work. Personally, I'm an SMB IT specialist and have a programmer and two Advancement Services staff working for me. They're specialists in making the most of our donor management system, Ellucian CRM Advance, which is a heavily modified Microsoft Dynamics Sales platform. I'm also the primary software support for our finance team, the CISO, and general IT helpdesk for equipment.
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Whoa. That's some resume!
Companies always put their best people in the departments that make the money!
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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IT very rarely makes money, even for tech companies. However, putting money into IT that enables your money makers to do more with their time is a smart move. It does require IT recognize this and work hard to ensure they support the business.
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I always thought that having to wait a year before being told "whatever" was pointless if one wanted to "nip problems" in the bud.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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A decent company will at least give you an annual COLA increase. Bonuses and real raises are another matter.
In these inflationary times, if you aren't getting even that, I would start looking around for a new position.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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it suggests that you need to leave this company...
diligent hands rule....
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Unfortunately, it's not that simple. I enjoy the job and I've only been there one year. I don't usually jump ship so soon.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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It's not the norm.
You should have a yearly performance review and goals set for pay increase (at least inflation) and bonus.
This is part of my questions sheet when going on job interviews.
Obviously the situation sucks if you like the job and the people you are working with and you do not want to change job in the near future.
Good luck.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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Reading your post and some of the answers I feel like sharing a bit of personal history.
I spent the the last 20+ years in a small software company in a vertical market. It was kind of a "total commitment" relationship between us and the company where you were expected to do everything and the company would do everything in return. These are not empty words: we had the case of an employee having a nervous breakdown in a far away land and the owner of the company jumped on a plane on a Saturday morning, took the employee from the far away land to his even further away home, went back and Monday morning replaced the guy for another week until someone else could take the relieve.
In this company bonuses were routinely around 30% depending on how the company performed during the year and salary increases were at least matching the inflation. As I said, with great rewards come great expectations: nobody would bat an eyelid if I had to answer a call at 3 in the morning and no one would understand what is the difference between a front end and a back end developer. Stuff had to be done and whoever was closer would do it.
The only purpose in sharing this story was to point out that these type of jobs still exist and it's up to you to go hunting for them. The fun in holding them is enormous 
Mircea
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Thanks for sharing that. I worked for a small startup for about 5 years and it was much like that, except that there was very little money to go around, LOL.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Richard Andrew x64 wrote: Is this a current trend in IT or general business, or am I just unlucky?
Whether it's a trend or not, I cannot say, but I too am experiencing the same.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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No, it's not a trend. At least for me.
Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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It all depends. 
Wage adjustments should, at a minimum, keep up with inflation.
That base adjustment would be if your skill level remained flat and the company’s sales revenue for the product was flat or had minimal increases.
Some companies or managers may not have the desire to retain their talent, and so their negligence may be planned, or it may be by design.
You decide whether you want to work for them for the compensation they offer. If it’s not good for you, tell them - give them a chance to correct it. Then make your decision based on that.
Good luck!
Time is the differentiation of eternity devised by man to measure the passage of human events.
- Manly P. Hall
Mark
Just another cog in the wheel
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I worked for a small company for 15 years (annual revenue < $5 million & approximately 30 employees). We only got raises if we asked for them. You didn't have to threaten leaving or anything - just lay out your case for why you felt you deserved more. Make it about your work performance, not the economy.
At my current company, which is in the Fortune 500 crowd, we were getting annual reviews and performance-based raises. What I know to be typical for some large companies, is each manager got 3% per employee under them to give out as they see fit. If they had 2 employees, that's 6% to give out. Sally could get 5% and Bob 1%. All was fine. If everyone was a good employee, we all got 3%. So it kind of sucked if you have whole team of A+ employees getting 3%. Another team with one ok employee and lots of bad ones would have the ok employee getting 6% or more. HR would review and make sure things weren't too much out of whack though, like everyone getting 0% except one employee getting all of it.
However, this inflationary market has hit this company hard with net profits down 20% year over year. This use this number for 401(k) match amounts and decisions like layoffs and raises. They suspended raises for last year because of it, but this year we are back to the 3%.
Hope that helps give some perspective.
Bond
Keep all things as simple as possible, but no simpler. -said someone, somewhere
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My experience was similar to your first paragraph. Small company (10 employees, < $10M revenue), raises only if you asked and could justify it. No COLA. No pension plan. Limited health care.
There were annual bonuses that helped at Christmas time but were totally unpredictable (generally between 1% and 3% of your salary). If you discussed your bonus with other employees you could be terminated.
Executive bonuses were much higher, of course. A manager might get 10% to 15%. Executives 25% to 40%.
Overtime was uncompensated.
Requirements and specifications for software projects were defined by sales people. They were the only ones allowed to talk to the customers until the software went into support. Project estimates were reduced by non-technical executives to meet the company's cash flow requirements. Better to apologize for not delivering that lose the contract.
I was well beyond the age where I could expect to find employment elsewhere. When I was much younger I appreciated that companies in technical fields preferred youth over experience. Now I can't understand why. With today's high turnover rates, experience should count for more.
I eventually retired. I miss the work and most of my former co-workers but I am much happier now. Turns out there is more to life than programming. Although, this Arduino and Pi stuff is kind of interesting...
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I think it just depends on who you work for.
I've been self employed since 1990, and my primary business is a code contractor, but I call myself a software engineer, and small companies that are looking to upgrade their software systems come to me for help, and contract to me.
I have one programmer friend that works for Blizzard/Activision, and gets paid pretty well, remote works in CO, and gets his annual pay raises which are pretty generous, plus stocks. He use to work for Northrop Grumman designing software for the F35 jet, but got tired of that and moved on.
The point I'm making, is that some companies are cash generating machines, while other companies are just sort of stagnate. Some companies are on a mission to solve future problems, or are looking to cash in on future hype such as AI. Then you have other companies such as Government, that play the normal game, and use the normal rules of the employer/employee accord.
It really becomes an issue of value, where you might be worth more to a company that has a solid plan, is well received in the stock market, and has a long vision for the future, versus working for a company that is stagnant, and just trying to make it to 20 years so pensions can be collected and the people leave.
Personally, you have helped me many times over the last decade, and I think you have excellent value. So I will help you now. When we look at the current state of our economy, and examine the same data that the Federal Reserve is using to analyze the impacts of a tighter monetary policy, or raising interest rates, in order to slow job growth and reduce inflation down to the 2% level, the data suggest that job growth is not really slowing, but accelerating. This means right now, you still have the advantage in changing who you work for, to get a better deal in return for your knowledge and skill levels. But it's up to you to find that employer, one that is hot right now, and needs more great talent.
Go find a better company to work for right now, because I don't think where going into a recession, I think were looking at our economy expanding and growing over the next 10 years, and this is just sort of the eye of the storm, or a pause. Or you can do research on the company you work for now, and check their business model and system, see if the goods or services they sell can justify raising the price to the consumer, and if not, bail out.
One warning however that contradicts what I just wrote, don't work for money, let money work for you. Most people just lost 8% of their income to inflation, and that 8% was huge for those with high levels of life style inflation. I went broke trying to sell myself and my coding skills, plus trying to create a software app that I can sell, while at the same time wanting to be debt free. So I started the Dave Ramsey program, took me 7 years to get debt free by living on a shoe string, but my life style inflation is near zero. So I didn't really take much of a hit with inflation, because I was able to raise my prices and fees fast enough to keep pace. I'm just saying that tighter money management may be of interest as well right now.
If it ain't broke don't fix it
Discover my world at jkirkerx.com
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