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jshell - shall we sign up for a plumbing class 
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Certainly plumbing (and trades) are going to see a significant increase in pay in the future.
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Until theft of original works to train the not-really-AI projects is stopped, I will continue to be bothered by AI offerings.
At a bare minimum, folks need to be informed of the theft involved. But folks buy stolen things and things produced with stolen tech and art all the time, so I think we need some sort of legal action, criminal and civil until the theft is the shadow industry it should be and known as a criminal endeavor.
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Cpichols wrote: Until theft of original works to train the not-really-AI projects is stopped
Not sure where you work but where I work developers often use google to search for solutions.
I have never worked with a single developer that understood copyright laws much less spent time researching the actual application of that to some code that they ended up copying. Multiple companies.
I worked at one place where it was found that an employee was using significant amounts of code from his previous employer. He just copied it and brought along. It all had to be ripped out.
I have seen employers suggest that interviews that prospective employees should demonstrate previous code (the actual code) that they worked on during the interview process.
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Wow. That needs to stop. I have copied snippets offered in tutorials or blog posts, but those are usually tiny (~20 lines or less) and always used as a guideline for me since they're usually not exactly what I'm after. Do you think these can be copyrighted, or are you referring to the much larger issues like the one you cited?
For me, Google is mostly just a quicker way to find the reference page I want. Is actually writing code so rare?
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Cpichols wrote: tutorials or blog posts, but those are usually tiny (~20 lines or less) and always used as a guideline for me since they're usually not exactly what I'm after. Do you think these can be copyrighted, or are you referring to the much larger issues like the one you cited?
You need to check the blog/tutorial.
At least some forums that are on the internet state in the terms of use that posting to the forum means you (the poster) are giving up rights. But as a user of that posted code you need to check first.
Cpichols wrote: find the reference page I want.
Not sure what you mean by "reference page".
But for example even though I have the original Java API in a book I haven't actually cracked that in years. Rather I would search for a Java API via google. Same for the Microsoft libraries.
However that is the core stuff of both. When I start using additional libraries then I must track down the license for each. What I then do for legal reasons is create at text file (or perhaps several) where I document the following
- The library name
- Source of the libary
- Version
- The name of the license (like 'Berkely')
- A summary that states it is free for commercial use
- A link the license that I found.
- And often a copy of that license document. (Why? Because links can change or disappear.)
All of the above will meet due diligence changes for internal or external audits.
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Analysis and design preceed programming. Mess up the problem definition, and all the AI in the world won't help with building the wrong solution.
e.g. What is the chance of dispersion of a company of skirmishers, with average ability, in extended open order, firing on the march, who have been doing double time for the last 2.5 minutes, who are receiving as much fire as they're dispensing, who were defeatd in their last encounter, and have currently lost 20% of their numbers, etc.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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Quote: Far as I can recall I first saw an automated order entry system in a fast food restaurant in the 1990's. Yet today I still see a person behind the counter for every fast food place I go to.
I wish that were the case for me. My experience with (some) McDondald's is that there is never anyone behind the counter. The kiosks developed for self-serve customer ordering during covid are what you have to use, unless you go up to the counter and stare at the folks packaging food and working the drive through, waiting for them to notice and come take your order at some point, which isn't worth the hassle.
So generally the kiosk is fine to use, however I like to get a tote (13) of cookies always, and guess what, after you select that "item", you have to select the flavor of each of the 13 cookies from a list of. . . .yes, 1 element (chocolate chip - that's all they have). So, 13 times you have to do this.
Some programmer/requirement developed/stated that this was needed for future needs I'm sure, but. . .wow, it is really annoying, especially since if you tap repeatedly on the cookie flavor (which you do because the refresh rate is so annoyingly slow) it must fill a buffer and the kiosk app locks up and you have to start over at another one!  So, yes, I am definitely "hangry" at that point.
So, when we (by 2 sons are along usually) get to that point one of them says "dad, let me do this".
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My Win10 dev box (an 11th Gen Intel i7 @ 2.80GHz, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD NUC with zero bloatware) runs well and is the source of much joy, especially when building Android apps in C# using Visual Studio. I've been eyeing the MacOS-like rounded corners and the subtle window border shadows of the Win11 UI with envy. The only thing that's preventing me from upgrading (in place) is a perhaps irrational fear that VS will malfunction, or worse - stop working altogether.
For those who've in-place upgraded their Win10 dev box to Win11, did it adversely impact Visual Studio? Am I over worrying? 
/ravi
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No effect on VS at all - it went really smoothly and I had no problems.
Provided your PC meets the Win11 requirements, it should work.
But if you are even the least concerned, do a full image backup before you upgrade and you can restore if you get a problem / don't like it. I use AOMEI Backupper, and it does a brilliant job, even the free version!
Backups are generally a good idea to have anyway, so upgrade immediately after your next one.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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 good to know, as my scenario is quite similar - Win 11 2022H2 is pending (for 2 months I think ), and the current setup is compatible ...
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I personally would not do it, and would not base my actions on the success of one or a handful of people.
Get yourself a new computer/laptop with Windows 11 installed. Now you have 2 computers, one with your beloved Windows 10 and one with Windows 11. That is how I would do it personally. Money is not an issue for me, so buying two computers is a walk in the park. If money is an issue, then follow Griff's advice especially the backup first part.
good luck. cheers.
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Better still, stick with Windows 10. After all, what does 11 actually give you that you do not already have?
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It has an 11 on the about box. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: what does 11 actually give you that you do not already have?
Nothing, actually. I needed a new computer as my Windows 10 box was feeling the age (2015), so I got a new computer with Windows 11 on it. Bells and whistles, a few added visuals, other than that, nothing.
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That's probably the smartest method. I'm sure Win11 will have less issues on newer hardware. Personally, I never had any real issue except for a loud GPU fan, but my laptop isn't an old one.
Eventually we'll have to upgrade due to Win10 not getting support, but that's waaaayy off (in PC terms).
Jeremy Falcon
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Some people of course need the ability to test their apps on both.
But then having two computers with the different versions is the best way to do that anyways.
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Or a VM.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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VMs have gotten better but if a customer has a exotic problem then one less factor in the testing might make it easier to demonstrate.
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Get a win 11 box. You will have to do sometime it anyway plus you will have two boxes to test with.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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Thanks everyone for your replies! ![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
My Win10 box is less than 6 months old so I don't feel inclined to buy a new Win11 box. I'll therefore follow OG's advice and do an image backup before performing an in-place upgrade.
/ravi
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If you are used to keep taskbar icon programs ungrouped, then I will suggest to do not upgrade. It's not possible yet to ungroup taskbar icons. And it looks it will never be possible.
If I could, I would stick with Windows 10.
Windows 11 has just more fancy icons and reduced productivity, not increased. Nice for home users, but has not a good UX for professionals/developers IMO.
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I've been upgrading Windows in-place on a weekly basis for several years, as my dev PC gets Windows Insiders builds (I started so I'd get the latest WSL builds as early as possible). In that time, I've had zero problems with the upgrade process and the problems I have had (a few BSODs) have been rare (for example, there was something about upgrading packages on my WSL Ubuntu install that caused a BSOD) and fixed in the next build.
Anyway - my PC has seen Windows 10 versions from around when WSL was introduced in 2016 through to now when I'm running Windows 11 build 25276, which'll likely result in Windows 11 23H2.
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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I am lucky in this regard...
I mostly work on my Dell Precision Laptop and it cannot be upgraded to Windows 11.
Problem solved... 
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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