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Another example of stupidity, although in a very different area:
I am certainly not a 'prepper' of the kind that they make TV stories about, I just want to be somewhat prepared for eventualities. So I wanted a gas stove, in case we have a power blackout. 99.99% of all cooking stoves in Norway are electric, so it makes me slightly eccentric, but a few of my friends are gourmets insisting that gas burners are superior.
I settled for a model for my remodeled kitchen. At the very last moment, reading its online instruction booklet, I discovered that this stove had a 'security system' that would close all gas valves in case of a power blackout. There is no way to override this (I have that in writing from the manufacturer). So when you really need a gas stove because of a blackout, it won't work. It is totally dependent on household electric power.
I found an alternative. On my request, the manufacturer has provided a clear statement that in case of a blackout, the stove will still work, although not with the electrical ignition - I will have to lit the fire with a spark igniter. That is perfectly fine with me - I always used spark igniters on camping/cottage gas stoves.
(This second alternative also solved another problem. In Norway, all your friends - except for the gourmets - will run you down: 'You are crazy, not going for an induction top! It is just sooooo much better!' The solution I ended up with was a half-with, two-burners gas stove for the power fallouts and for my gourmet friends, and a half-width induction stove for all the other friends of mine ... It is not just for my friends: I bought it with a cast iron grill unit that I can put on the most powerful induction zone, for grilling my steaks!)
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Oh man, I get you.
Here in America, most of the houses could have been designed by 5 yos. Whatever you can slap together in 30 days, and if we slide enough cash to the "inspectors"... My biggest beef is that there are no real range vents. If the vent over the stove sends the air back into the kitchen, it's a joke.
So, when we decided to redo the kitchen, there were two non-negotiables. I wanted a gas range and I wanted a REAL range vent. I paid for both. And we are foodies, sorry, electric/induction is cute but it just does not cut it.
But about your stove. Why the heck would a gas stove need to have electricity (looking at mine now)? Sure it has electronic ignition, but  wait one...... well crap, I need to go turn off a breaker - I'll have to test it later. The only reason we have electronic ignition is to avoid pilot lights.
But seriously, friends shaming you for cooking on gas? Stop feeding them.  tell them the induction part is broken.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I rented a house over Thanksgiving and cooked with gas for the first time. Actually hated it. While it responds quickly to temperature changes, it was always slow/questionable to light with the electric clicker and never really seemed to get as hot as my electric at home. I'll keep my electric stove. I also have an external vent over my stove that I wouldn't go without!
Hogan
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When shopping for a gas stove, I too noticed that a great deal of them are significantly lower power that I am used to from electric stoves, which are typically 2000W, the smaller ones 1500W. Typical gas stoves are 1200-1500W, some down to 1000W. So I specifically looked for a high-powered one. The one I settled on has burners of 1900W and 2800W.
You are right: Most gas burners are lower effect than modern electrical cooking tops. I don't know why, except that in my childhood, typical electrical stoves were 1000 / 1200 / 1500W. Around here 2000W became the standard maybe 45-50 years ago. Maybe the typical gas stove customer never experienced the convenience of having high power available when you need it.
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charlieg wrote: But seriously, friends shaming you for cooking on gas? Stop feeding them. tell them the induction part is broken.
Norway is a country where you are expected to be "modern" in all aspects. Throw out all the old sh*t. You are shamed even for cooking on a ceramic top, "Why haven't you replaced that with an induction top?". You are shamed for using a CD or DVD player; today everything is available at streaming services. No, I say: Look at this movie, this, this and this. Or off-mainstream music. Besides, I've got my music when the network goes down (similar to having a cooking stove during a blackout). You are shamed for using a compact camera, SLR or traditional video camera, rather than your mobile. You are shamed for sending an email rather than texting. For buying a diesel car rather than an electric one. And so on.
If you do things the old ways, because you know them to work well, you are ignorant. Or maybe plainly poor, you cannot afford to buy what you really want. Of course everyone really want induction stoves and streaming and all your life in your smartphone and electric cars. Why wouldn't they, when it is soooo much better?
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At one house I had, with it's shiny new appliances, I looked into getting a gas range instead of the white electric glass top that came with the house and promptly turned brown. I was told that in case of electric power loss, I would need to have the gas stove plugged into a UPS in order to light it, and that matches wouldn't work becuase of the 'patented sealed-burner design' that has finally made gas stoves 'safe'.
I kept the electric glass-top. I did have a prolonged power-outage (7-days) in the middle of a snowstorm. An underground transformer blew, and I ate out a lot, did some homework by candle and PDA (I was working on my Master's), got extensions on some assignments, and a letter in the mail from the electric company espousing their efficiency to get everyone's power back on in 2 days. Standing their without power reading how they had the power back on really was ... irritating, and I sent them a letter in response to their nonsense, and another letter to the regulating agency. The electric company sent me a greenbar printout to 'prove' they had everyone's power back on in only 2 days, and chastised me for contacting the regulating agency.
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Find a different gas stove that doesn't have that patented hoohaa. We intentionally have our gas stove's breaker switched off because we have always had issues with the electric igniters and have a little plasma lighter sitting next to the stove top. I don't have kids and the cats don't jump on the stove top, so I'm not worried about the gas getting turned on accidentally.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss.
Lazarus Long, "Time Enough For Love" by Robert A. Heinlein
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Since we got these 'smart meters' a few years ago, we can easily retrieve over internet the hour-by-hour electricity consumption, to prove the length of a blackout (although only with hour resolution). If your bill says that you have had zero consumption for seven days, and the power company tries to say: That is only you turning everything off for the last five of those seven days - then no one will believe them. Here in Norway, you could demand an economic compensation for being without electricity for a week, and if customers insist on compensation for seven days, the power company for two, the quarrel could end up in court.
It never would go so far, though. The smart meters would provide proof, and there are web pages presenting maps with all blackouts drawn in, along with estimates for how long it will take to fix the problem. If the map for five days says 'No problems in this area!' but none of the customers have any power available, then the power company won't get much peace through those five days!
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Interesting. But my incident was pre-2006, and I didn't have a SmartMeter there at that time.
I had not actively shopped for gas stoves up until then, and instead always accepted what came with the house. And at that time it wasn't possible to purchase a gas range that didn't have the sealed-burner design. I understand about cats and children....never the issue for me, though.
My previous home was a house built in 1925, and the gas stove that came with it was probably of similar vintage, with standing-pilots on the burners that didn't want to say lit, and an oven that didn't have a pilot. I generally had to use matches to light a burner or the oven with every usage. But I never endured a lengthy power outage there.
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One of our gas burners has been started with a grill lighter for the last 15 years after a “soup over flow” ruined/disabled the electric ignition.
It is unfortunately the most popular burner.
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Try to install a "wired" HP printer from a wireless laptop and you'll get even more frustrated.
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Like I said, the s/w blows.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Having to be online to use an HP printer immediately disqualified them from consideration when we were looking for a new printer. That design decision is totally unjustifiable.
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From what I can tell HP no longer develops the printers they sell. I believe their model is to provide generic software built around a set of so-called standards. Printer mechanism OEM's then provide the hardware, HP smacks a label on the CMYK-spewing abortion, and sells the result. HP gets a cut.
The last couple of HP printer's I've purchased function adequately without installing the HP software crap, so I haven't.
That thin, high-pitched whine you hear reverberating in the background is from Bill Hewlett and David Packard spinning in their graves.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary R. Wheeler wrote: The last couple of HP printer's I've purchased function adequately without installing the HP software crap, so I haven't.
That worked for me for a while but then it realised and installed PrintSmart (or whatever it is called) itself. Then everything stopped working, had to uninstall and re-install. It then failed to install wirelessly so I ran a cable to it and now the PC sees the printer twice and I can print either way, even though it claimed not to have installed the wireless version.
Oh, and the printing software occasionally tries to re-install itself and for reasons I cannot begin to fathom, I have one desktop icon for scanning mode and another one that accesses printing and scanning ....
And when it does re-install itself it changes some print settings that disable double sided printing and I have to go deep into Windows settings to change something to re-enable it.
But apart from that, it's great.
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My last two HP printers weren't actual purchases. I inherited them from family members who couldn't make them work consistently. Sadly, I'm too cheap to just throw them (and the ink) out.
The next time I actually buy a printer it will not be from HP, largely because of the software crap you describe.
Software Zen: delete this;
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charlieg wrote: who has decided you cannot using what you just bought without an online account _and_ an internet connection.
This is why I refuse to replace my wonderful, ancient, HP inkjet with a newer model. Sadly, any printer manufacturers seem to be going this route. The whole automatic re-ordering of ink is another thing that annoys me.
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You are so right, Charlie. HP was the premier provider of equipment and services when I was designing test systems for the DoD, along with Tektronix. As quality providers, neither still exists so far as I can tell.
Will Rogers never met me.
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I loved HP Test Equipment (Hughes Aircraft Missile Systems 82-85). Tektronix was the only digitizer we used as well.
We were working with one of HP's new HPIB counters, and the code in it was so messed up. I finally tracked an engineer down for the product and sent him a list of defects. One example: you can trigger going high or low, but I finally figured out that they had them backwards. The engineer *tried* to play down the issue, said "well, you can fix that in your code right?
I pointed out that for the $$ charged, why was I having to dick up my code because of his crappy code? To his credit, he did not hang up on me.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Exactly the same WTF I had a couple of days ago.
You can bypass it with the windows integrated scan software, but still.
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My sympathies, it sounds like a total pain. And apologies might be due to bananas also, yes? x
Paul Sanders.
If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter - Blaise Pascal.
Some of my best work is in the undo buffer.
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I just scanned a document without creating an account or logging in, using HP Smart, to verify this.
And as I expected, you don't have to create an account, you can cancel out of it and still scan documents.
It just looks like you need to create an account, but you technically don't have to agree with that.
After that, it doesn't prompt you again, as far as I can tell.
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model #?
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I use Canon. It has none of those quirks.
Maybe they'll get ideas from HP, in future.
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