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honey the codewitch wrote: Heck, up through the 1970s a single earner household could eke out a middle class existence, with children!
I am not that old and I can still remember that as a child, so I would say up to mid or end 80s
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
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Frankly, at least in the US, I am sure you are either misremembering, or your earner had a better job than most.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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honey the codewitch wrote: Frankly, at least in the US, I am sure you are either misremembering, or your earner had a better job than most.
Agreed. I've seen graphs that show just that, and the curve simply stops its upwards trend in the 70s. And not just one, but from many discussions on this topic. I have no problem sticking by that claim.
What one remembers is entirely irrelevant, especially when you trace back to before even being alive.
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Most of those curves end their upward climb when Nixon dropped the gold standard and fiat currency became all the rage. That and the huge growth of government and regulation.
If you can't laugh at yourself - ask me and I will do it for you.
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The graphs typically start diverging at 1979, and that's right around when Reagan took office, just after Carter.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Err... no.
Reagan was inaugurated in January 1981. So 1979 was square in the middle of Carter's reign of terror.
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I said around the time. I was approximating. Besides, either way nothing Reagan did was enacted at that point.
However, he did continue the neoliberal economic policies of the time. And so did Clinton and Bush.
Anyway, it certainly had nothing to do with gold standard or regulations.
A common myth dreamt up by people with too much money, when the reality is that regulations and progressive taxation is precisely what Adam Smith prescribed in The Wealth of Nations to prevent the kind of wealth concentration we see today.
The matter was settled a long time ago. The rest is just chin music.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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America specifically and western society generally are more highly regulated and taxed (progressively) than at any time in our history. Blaming the concentration of wealth on some mythical lack of progressive ideals is a farce.
I'd more likely blame the welfare state created by Kennedy & LBJ. I recommend reading some Thomas Sowell[^] for the details. His life story gives him one hell of an insight.
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Nothing to do with progressive ideals. It has to do with progressive taxation, like I said. That's an entirely different thing.
And I'll continue to take Adam Smith's wisdom over some randos on the Internet, but thanks.
Thomas Sowell is a clown. He's a stupid man's idea of what a smart man sounds like.
That's all I have to say on this subject.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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honey the codewitch wrote: Anyway, it certainly had nothing to do with gold standard or regulations.
If that "gold standard" means that governments had to back up their money with assets (gold in this case)... I think yes, that really is a factor (if not THE factor).
I don't know nor care who started it. But in my opinion that was the first big step and the inflection point into the mess we have today.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I come from Spain. A lot of kids in my age had only a working father (me too). And all of those families had enough to live without troubles.
Today... those kids have grown and had families on their own (as me), mostly working both of the parents and they can survive and barely make it through the year but far away of the life they had as kids.
Granted... there is a lot about economical education, lifestyle and many other factors. But still, adquisitive power has been drastically reduced in 30 years.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Thanksgiving is a distinct American celebration. Yet I suspect us techies from time to time need to be reminded to stop and recognize what they can be thankful for. I'm in a dark hole in my life at the moment, re-evaluating priorities, but I refuse to surrender. The other day a cp'r posted a death in his family due to foggy conditions and the driver didn't see the tractor  I feel the pain.
This morning, an ambulance in my area was answering an emergency during rush hour. Things went sideways, 3 car accident, driver of the ambulance killed. I suspect it's just tragic circumstances due to details.
Context: my youngest daughter of 11 is an emergency responder. She knew the driver.
Context: Two of her older brothers served 11 tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. Infantry and armor, outside the wire. One scratch. Long nights watching the news. Early AM calls from the other side of the world.
Context: son #4 is now Airborne and jumps out of perfectly good airplanes - he's a rigger. He jumps with his own chute.
So, when you are sitting there and having a pity party (like me a few hours ago), count your blessings, suck it up and be thankful. For those of you who have children be they young or older, suck it up and be courageous. You never stop being a parent, a leader and aa friend. Teach them courage and to see the blessings that they have and to watch out for those less fortunate.
Be thankful.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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What does this have to do with Elon Musk?
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Nothing. Charlie was just reminding us of the important stuff.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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I thought the meaning of "can bite me" is exactly the answer to your question.
And I totally agree with him.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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actually - work long hours, high intensity, yada yada yada. Elon can run his company as he sees fit, but he's coming across as "The Ice Lady" from a past employer.
She was director of HR, and the company had acquired a new startup that had great potential. Prior to me arriving as part of the management team tasked with collecting some of the intellectual knowledge, there was a meeting where she said, "Most of you will be offered limited relocation, but there will be salary adjustments, you're all overpaid by our standards."
Want to guess how many people transferred?
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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charlieg wrote: Thanksgiving is a distinct American celebration.
Canadian here. I've digested that turkey well over a month ago.
But I suppose the rest of your post was the main point. Carry on...
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A first for me
Worldle #300 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
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Found it very easy today (seeing as I live there!)
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#Worldle #300 2/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩⬜⬜⬇️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr
I've had it in one try before, not this one though.
After my first random country I was like "what's about 7500 km to the south", which is how I solve these things 
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That's what I do with the island ones... some of those are insanely difficult!
Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have. -Anon
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Actually the map should show a hole, I think... easy one nevertheless.
Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have. -Anon
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#Worldle #300 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr
Also in first attempt.
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