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Rage2-Nov-22 5:30

Rage

2-Nov-22 5:30

Not sure why they would still need SW developers. The coding work is done.

honey the codewitch2-Nov-22 5:32

2-Nov-22 5:32

I don't know where you work, but coding dies when the product does everywhere I've been.

I guarantee you Twitter has developers. Elon is busy abusing them as we speak, I think with his latest insane deadlines for his new pay-to-play video initiative from what I'm hearing.

To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.

James G 20213-Nov-22 5:00

James G 2021

3-Nov-22 5:00

By "abusing", do you mean making them work more hours? Do you mean stopping the 'fact checks'?

honey the codewitch3-Nov-22 5:04

3-Nov-22 5:04

I mean the "make this (crazy) deadline or you're all fired" toxic workplace environment.

I honestly don't care about their "fact checks", one way or another because anyone stupid enough to do their "research" on facebook, twitter and youtube deserves what they get.

To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.

Shmoken994-Nov-22 11:54

Shmoken99

4-Nov-22 11:54

Unfortunately some of these ppl are smart enough to figure out how to vote, and they really like to do that.

fgs19632-Nov-22 5:33

2-Nov-22 5:33

By all accounts the pre-Musk work ethic at Twitter was abysmal. Employees spent more time playing, socializing and politicizing than actually working / earning their pay.

Maybe I'm old school but I judge my co-workers by their productivity rather than their foosball prowess. My conscience requires me to put in a full day's work to earn a full day's pay.

I'd likely prefer working at post-Musk Twitter than pre-Musk Twitter.

honey the codewitch2-Nov-22 5:35

2-Nov-22 5:35

It sounds to me like he's demanding 80 hour weeks by producing ultimatums like "deliver this by the drop dead date or you're all fired"

An employer that thinks he could treat me like that would quickly find himself hitting the bricks looking for another senior dev or architect.

But then, I don't really have to look for work. It finds me.

I'm surprised anyone here would prefer working conditions like that.

To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.

fgs19632-Nov-22 5:40

2-Nov-22 5:40

I'm just not hearing about that level of demands.

I'm hearing pampered "little darlings" that are complaining that they are being held accountable for the very first time in their lives.

Gjeltema2-Nov-22 5:48

Gjeltema

2-Nov-22 5:48

Not sure where you get your news from, but here's one place discussing some of what CodeWitch is talking about.

fgs19632-Nov-22 5:57

2-Nov-22 5:57

Since we're sharing links... Twitter 'day in a life' video indicates lots of downtime, very little actual work - TheBlaze[^]. There are others.

Maybe... just maybe... if Twitter employees had a decent work ethic to start with the codebase would be in a state where Musk's demands could be met with little OT.

honey the codewitch2-Nov-22 7:03

2-Nov-22 7:03

Regardless of the culture that was there prior, even if one video could tell the whole story (In my experience large companies vary widely in culture from department to department), it does not excuse poor management.

Look, I made a nice living doing consulting in a "project rescue" capacity, putting multimillion dollar implementations back on track.

You don't do that by issuing ultimatums and crazy deadlines and generally creating a toxic work environment. All Elon has done is chased out anyone that may have had the skills he needs right now. And people don't work well at gunpoint.

All he's doing is taking a situation he already didn't like the look of, and throwing gasoline and matches at it.

To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.

fgs19632-Nov-22 7:25

2-Nov-22 7:25

I don't base my opinion about Twitter culture from one video. I've been watching the cultures (from afar) at Twitter, FB, Google, Apple, etc... for many years. Even back when Musk was a mere millionaire... Wink | ;)

Poor management has been alive and well at Twitter from its start. Dorsey is a clown. Always has been. His pitiful management created the mess that Musk is trying to clean-up. I have no idea if Musk's fire and brimstone methods will work or not but "more of the same" never fixes the problem. Ever.

I predict we're going to see similar (albeit less public) issues at FB and Google in the coming months and years. Hell, we're already seeing them if you look closely. Spoiled employees who think they can work from home forever, whine constantly on company message boards, be less productive and still demand top tier money.

As for working well "at gunpoint"... some people can and do in small-ish doses. Most of us who've been in the game for more than a few years have "pulled a rabbit from the hat" on occasion when the pressure is on. Maybe Musk is merely trying to find his magicians?

honey the codewitch2-Nov-22 7:27

2-Nov-22 7:27

I can already tell you they won't work, because it's the first thing bad managers try when things aren't going their way.

Elon's approach has been done to death. It's an anti-pattern.

He'd save himself a ton of financial pain if he just read the book "Fish". It's brief.

It might save him billions. Seeing as how his personal wealth has been hemorrhaging since he took over twitter, he could probably stand to save a few bucks.

To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.

fgs19632-Nov-22 7:34

2-Nov-22 7:34

What will be your litmus test on whether his current approach at Twitter works or fails?

honey the codewitch2-Nov-22 7:44

2-Nov-22 7:44

I think if Twitter maintains its dominance as a social media platform, and Elon remains in charge of that, then I'd be fine with conceding he pulled a rabbit out of a hat, given his approach. But it's still not an approach I'd ever adopt, because the odds are against it paying off.

To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.

modified 2-Nov-22 20:07pm.

Dan Neely2-Nov-22 8:18

Dan Neely

2-Nov-22 8:18

I expect it to crash and burn at Twitter too, recovery might happen but not without a hell year and massive staff turnover first. And even then I'm doubtful due to the likely loss of institutional memory of how the codebase works.

Elon's managed to make it work at Telsa and SpaceX because they were open about expectations when hiring and there is a small subset of the population idealistic enough to work themselves to death for an opportunity to change the world. Most people won't put up with being Elephant | [mastadon]

ed that way; especially when the new slave driver is promising massive layoffs anyway. And when a company is hemoraging staff at all levels, finding ex/coworkers to give you references isn't a problem.

Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius

jschell4-Nov-22 13:18

jschell

4-Nov-22 13:18

fgs1963 wrote:
Spoiled employees who think they can work from home forever, whine constantly on company message boards, be less productive and still demand top tier money.

The pool is going down and the demand is going up.
And Twitter HQ is in San Francisco. So even higher demand and very high cost of living. But with plenty of other employment alternatives.

So unless Musk has some extraterrestrials in his back pocket he is going to find it hard to replace them.

fgs1963 wrote:
Most of us who've been in the game for more than a few years have "pulled a rabbit from the hat" on occasion when the pressure is on. Maybe Musk is merely trying to find his magicians?

Yes. Because management did not know what they were doing and they decided that development need to fix a problem that management made.

Myself I don't play that game anymore.

fgs19634-Nov-22 14:43

4-Nov-22 14:43

I don’t think Musk intends to replace them. I suspect he will cut even more as time goes by.

Also Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon are all imposing hiring freezes and may well start making cuts too. I’m thinking Silicon Valley and Seattle are in line for a massive shift in employment. We’ll see…

jschell28-Nov-22 10:30

jschell

28-Nov-22 10:30

fgs1963 wrote:
Also Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon

There are something like 3,000 tech companies in the SF area.

So if the vast majority of those start folding I think you can expect something significant going on everywhere.

TNCaver2-Nov-22 8:51

TNCaver

2-Nov-22 8:51

My brother worked for Microsoft for several years. He told me that the expectation* there is everyone works a minimum 60 hours, but 80 is encouraged*.

*Read: unvoiced demands enforced by subtle work environment carrots and sticks.

If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.

honey the codewitch2-Nov-22 9:08

2-Nov-22 9:08

That's one of the reasons I haven't worked for them since Whistler was in development.

To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.

cplas7-Nov-22 9:10

cplas

7-Nov-22 9:10

💯👍👍

raddevus2-Nov-22 5:41

raddevus

2-Nov-22 5:41

A few days ago,I made this image / meme[^] for questions just like yours.

Why do people think twitter is _suddenly_ so terrible? Have you liked it all along?

honey the codewitch2-Nov-22 5:43

2-Nov-22 5:43

Oh I agree it has always been garbage.

But prior, I didn't hear Dorsey spewing things to his teams like "deliver this project on my timeline or you're all fired"

Now I'm hearing trash like that.

So maybe before, had I been in a position where I'd have considered employment at Twitter (enough to find more about their workplace environment) now I have enough evidence (for me) that it's someplace I wouldn't want to work, and similarly, if I had worked there in the past, I certainly wouldn't put up with what I'm seeing of the current direction. And basing this on public twits made by Elon himself.

To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.