|
We had the same thing here with vacuum cleaners - EU law reduced the max power to 1600W then to 900W, probably to make rechargeable ones competitive, despite the major effect being they just don't suck as well.
I've still got my 1900W, which actually copes with cat hair! 
Lawmakers don't care if their changes mean that something just doesn't work any more, just that it fits their agenda (or more likely the agenda of whoever paid them most to adopt it).
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
|
|
|
|
|
A good CPU draws only a 6mA (max, according to the data sheet, only 3mA on average) operating current. 30mW (15mW on average) wenn running at full blast. What a battery life if you use it in a mobile device, but go easy on the LEDs. Every single one needs more power than the processor.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Fortunately you don't have to benchmark the performance when you are putting together the hardware. You just have to provide enough power to meet the worst case, all components at max power all at once. Plus a little tolerance. What you get for that power is the next question, after you have it running.
But you know which little old processor I was talking about. A small wonder for its time and if it was built with a more modern CMOS process, it would probably draw only a few µA. But it is a completely static design, so there is no minimum clock frequency. So I can effectively put it into standby by completely stopping the clock and lowering the supply voltage to a minimum. Then only a tiny leakage current will remain. The memory can be powered down in a similar way and retain its contents, everything else will be shut down completely. Such old devices can be really practical in portable devices.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
|
|
|
|
|
I doubt very much that you are talking about a CPU that can run Windows at any useful level of performance (or, say, the Eclipse IDE if you are a Linux guy),
For an ARM based SoC, aimed at embedded / IoT applications, you are certainly right - and you get them at significantly lower power consumption, too. Take a look at nRF5340[^] - a dual-core chip. The network core draws less than 2.5 mA when running; it may be 'on' but idling, consuming just 1.7 μA, ready to jump up more or less immediately whenever something requires its attention.
The chip can't run Windows, though. Not even the ARM version of Windows.
modified 27-Sep-21 8:17am.
|
|
|
|
|
Embedded? You might call it that. I was talking about a very old processor that was used in space probes, among other things. It had a reputation for being very modest in its requirements and surviving in places where other processers of the time simply died, like in Jupiter's radiation belt. No, it can't run Windows, thank god.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
|
|
|
|
|
You didn't identify the CPU architecture or model. I guess it wasn't an x86  Was it a specially designed, one-of-a-kind? (or possibly a-dozen-or-thereabouts-of-a-kind) Or was it a generally available CPU? How old is 'very old'? So old that it was built from discrete components? (I'd be very impressed if you can build a CPU from discrete components,drawing only 6 mA!)
|
|
|
|
|
It's ferst incarnation was called FRED and was indeed built frpm discrete components around 1972. Then came FRED II[^] in 1974 as a prototoype with the two chip CDP1801 processor. And then, in 1976 we got the CDP1802, one of the earliest CMOS and RISC processors.
And that little guy flew to Jupiter in the Galileo space probe[^].
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
modified 27-Sep-21 10:12am.
|
|
|
|
|
???????????
???????????
????? ???
??? ??? ??
??? ????? ?
???????????
???????????
???????????
???????????
???????????
??? ??
?????? ?? ?
?????? ??
???????????
???????????
???????????
???????????
???????????
???? ??? ??
??? ???????
???????? ??
???????????
??? ?? ???
???? ? ???
???????????
???????????
??? ? ???
??? ?? ????
???????????
??? ???
??????? ???
??????? ???
???????????
???????????
???????????
???????????
???????????
??? ????? ?
???? ?
???????????
???????????
???????????
...........
|
|
|
|
|
C-P-User-3 wrote: clone building
Wow.
1985 call, they want their nomenclature back...
Nowadays a PC is a PC is a PC. No need to remind everyone it's a "100% compatible clone of the original IBM PC".
|
|
|
|
|
In those days, at my workplace there was a discussion about which clone was "the most 100% compatible" one
|
|
|
|
|
So I bought my son an hp pavilion with 1T SSD, 16Gb RAM and an i5 with a middle good Radeon four years ago for 530€. It is a fairly decent PC, even gaming is fine.
Now the same setup (for any brand) is starting at about 900€. What the elephant ? OK, Covid, shortness of chips, raw material costs, etc... but really ? Paying at least double as much for the same thing four years later - has the industry gone crazy ?
|
|
|
|
|
Rage wrote: has the industry gone crazy ?
Was it ever sane?
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
|
|
|
|
|
As within other industry, they charge all the traffic will bear.
There are shipping problems, chip fabric problems, COVID issues, etc., but the biggest problem is that people are simply buying more equipment for "remote work" etc.
One result of a shortage is price rises.
Econ. 101.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
|
|
|
|
|
Don't forget all the people who have perfectly good PCs, but can't run Windows 11.
And a lot of people are desperate to have the latest stuff from Microsoft. 
|
|
|
|
|
I doubt that is all that many people. Most of those will want to wait till it actually comes on their new machine.
|
|
|
|
|
There are also still many scalpers, with botfarms, which grab up any GPU priced less than 150% of retail and even then many will grab them. Those captcha are basically nothing except a hassle for the real humans ensuring that the real bots walk away with the prizes. That allows many vendors to raise their prices. Even Microcenter has got ridiculous with their pricing, and they held the line for so very long.
|
|
|
|
|
Loads of stuff has massively increased in price due to demand and the lack of chips.
PCs, Cars ... because of chip shortages, new cars aren't being bought in the same numbers. So the price of second hand cars is still increasing massively.
It's not a good time to buy a PC or a Car - but wait a little time, and there will be a glut of both and the prices will drop, maybe below what they were.
Look at what happened to PPE prices - at one point, face masks were about doubling in price every time you bought 'em! Now, they are back to "reasonable levels" because there is a glut. The most expensive I paid for a box of 50 was £8.80, now they are £1.98 including delivery ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
|
|
|
|
|
|
If you want to call yourself a computer scientist / programmer ...
.. and you have problems with an investment of 1000 EUR for earning money?
Then better change your job! Every carpenter who buys a new planing machine spends multiple times!
What kind of wimps are you here ...?
modified 24-Oct-21 21:01pm.
|
|
|
|
|
Cool, lets all get new systems. Where do we send the bill?
|
|
|
|
|
1) Using the computer for dev work was never mentioned or implied.
2) A planing machine does not become obsolete in the same sense as a computer.
3) Unless you've never complained about the cost of something drastically increasing, you are also a "wimp".
4) With all the fallacious reasoning, maybe you should change your job
|
|
|
|
|
True story from the old days (a little after 1980):
This was in the DOS/dBase II days, no graphics. So when an architect told me (still a Comp.Sci student) that they had bought a PC at their office, I was surprised: For what? Well ... They had this two-floppy machine, with DOS, dBase II with the technical standard for building construction on one floppy, the budgeting of their tender on the other one. This program checked that their budget included the cost of everything required by the construction standard, like door handles, window sills and cables for the electric power. Very often, a number of such small amounts were overlooked, but they might add up to a considerable amount.
How large is the hard disk? I asked. They had no harddisk, only two floppies. Geee! I exclaimed, Then you might go for supper while waiting for the program to complete! Now the architect gave me an overbearing look: Well, for a large tender it could take an hour or two, but earlier, when we did such checks manually, it might require a couple man-weeks. Sometimes a man month, for the really large tenders.
And, for the very first project where we used this program, it pointed out overlooked expenses in our initial budget setup, adding up to far more than the complete cost of the PC and all the software. So the system paid itself in full on its first run!
|
|
|
|
|
That's unnecessarily harsh, making assumptions, and adds no value to the discussion whatsoever 
Cheers,
Vikram.
|
|
|
|
|
It is not about the money or the invest (you are right that money spent in good tools is well spent money), I was only pointing out that prices have gone very high for now almost obsolete material, and that there is nothing justifying it, even the "current" situation. But the link on the youtube video in one earlier post is a very good answer to it.
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
