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I perused the report for my entertainment and a sense of curiosity how all this mining was going to take place.
And well, no surprise it has to be "sustainable".
We can stop right there, because mining is not sustainable, just like oil extraction is not, and it is expensive, and dusty, and needs lots of energy to move heavy stuff around, break it up, and refine the rocks to the desirable end product, all the while emitting other metals into the air. It is just quite entertaing that one of these metals is cobalt. That is not an environmentally friendly metal.
Where is all the mining going to take place? Third world countries where the locals do not have the funds, or know how to set up large mining operations, let alone make them sustainable.
And just like before large corporations will do it for them and the locals will get a fraction of the value.
And then the transportation nightmare starts to move the metals to where they are needed, so that means rail cars, bulk shipping, etc. All through large landmasses where there is no infrastructure to do this "sustainable".
All the while emitting CO2 throughout this entire process.
None of this matters, the politicians don't have the mental capabilities to understand, and if they could, would chose self interest over feasibility. Trillions will be wasted.
The useful idiots will chant, and buy electric vehicles.
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It seems easy to find problems - and what are the options?
Like herbicides and pesticides for farming - I'd rather they did without, but without them we'd lose half our crop to vermin (as elsewhere whiteout these). One hopeful option was, for example GMO Corn that contains a bacterial toxin (one used by organic farmers) so that the crop is spared without spraying. But the complainers for these things dread that even more than the toxic sprays ! ? ! So, who's to starve while the complainers complain with while their BELLIES ARE FULL ?
One option, of course, is to eliminate say, about half the world's population. That would definitely cut demand.
All the points you bring up are correct - increasing demand. It's a cycle. But where's the solutions to these - and I mean real solutions, not just "We Must Stop (doing whatever) Now"?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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The real answer is a combination - but the obvious solutions include:
* Waste less. Tons of perfectly good food goes to landfill each year. You could probably hang onto your mobile phone for an extra year. Do you really need 12 pairs of shoes (thinking more about my wife for this one).
* Re-use and repair. If you can use something for longer before you throw it away, in most cases it's better for the environment. Support right to repair legislation.
* Recycle - recycling is hard. It has just about never been an economical prospect to recycle (other than glass bottles and aluminum cans). The trick is to build in the recyclability into the product. Make things easy to disassemble, use materials and components that can be more easily recycled. Require that product sellers take back used goods for recycling as part of the lifecycle.
* Most importantly - make sure all of the preceding points are considerations in your purchasing.
The obstacles are many, but one of the biggest ones is people over rating their contribution to being green based on what they said in a social media platform vs what they actually did for them selves.
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I've lived a lifetime, by my nature, of reuse. A bit of a pack rat. My opionion, in the current context is that the most efficient way to recycled is to reuse.
For years, bought used cars and kept them until they weren't worth keeping. Now, not willing to climb under vehicles before buying them I buy a new one - which I can keep that many more years.
Before they reduced the types of plastic they accept, we produced very little waste. Paper, plastic, glass: recycle. Most of the food into the compost. And upstream savings on a grand scale: soon to be 50 years vegetarian. So much saved not feeding livestock for the slaughter (10:1 food conversion - an absurd luxury). But it's all cheating, in a way, as it is, as I said, in my nature and such consumption is natural.
One of my most important energy savings is, aside from here in the CP Lounge, I don't belong to any social media. Just a simple flip-phone owner.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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We must stop doing things because.... is a sleight of hand as it always ignores the cost side.
But you can piece the information together:
fundamental transform
doing with less
skyrocketing energy prices
great reset
too many people
large groups of people do not use AC
redistribution
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: does a solar cell, during it's lifetime, produce more energy than it cost to produce? Purifying silicon, starting from sand, is a very very energy intensive process (like aluminum production).
I've seen that argument before. I believe the response was that, as efficiency has consistently been improving, this hasn't been a problem since the early 90s. You may want to update your sources.
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dandy72 wrote: efficiency has consistently been improving,
I will presume you mean the efficiency of the manufacturing process. Also, improving the useful lifetime would implicitly increase that efficiency.
The efficiency of the cells (of any type) is limited by the nature of the beast. Only light of a minimum wavelength is capable of being converted to electricity which is limited by the solar spectrum. If you modify the cells to accept more of the longer wavelengths then the band gap is reduced.
Band gap -> voltage
Band Width -> current
Power = voltage * current
If you reduce the band gap you get higher current but lower voltage. The product of the two, which is the power (the useful output measurement for comparison) comes in at about 20% and that's pretty well achieved.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Internal combustion engines are much less efficient than electric motors and batteries. There is loss in transmission lines and electrical storage is a real problem compared to hydro or carbon based fuels.
If you have an efficient turbine generating power at peak performance I would think that the overall efficiency is a win for electric cars.
Now, if you consider the entire life cycle of all the components and the production, I don't know. Batteries are expensive to produce, but then again, so are engine motors and transmissions.
Would be great to see the math on that. Not sure where to even get the data to start, though.
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300 Mw according to Wikipedia.
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Slacker007 wrote: Musk is off his rocker on this one, for sure.
Yes, I agree. But he's not wrong. It does use a huge amount of energy. In Iceland, Bitcoin Mining is using as much energy as the country's entire population. That also seems like complete madness. 
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In Iceland, it's all renewable, isn't it?
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5teveH wrote: The guy is a con-artist.
But one who eventually delivers.
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Monorail, MONOrail, MONORAIL! 
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Gerry Schmitz wrote: he just found out mining uses a lot of energy
He said, Quote: "We are concerned about rapidly increasing use of fossil fuels for Bitcoin mining and transactions, especially coal, which has the worst emissions of any fuel,"
He didn't say he just found out. You need to get over your obsession with this guy.
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yes Musk is a weasel and in general a blow hard. As for him delivering. I am not 100% sure on that. But he does recruit and reward good talent and he does a good job at being visionary.
Bitcoin - yes we have always known that.
Solar - Solar cells like any product weren't that good when first produced. They were expensive and the return was less than 8% or so. Now though. The manufacturing process has been improved a great deal. And also the efficiency has improved drastically. nearly 50% in some cases. So I am not sure that can be much of an argument.
But the comments about the rare earth metals and other important elements for producing everything we use. That is huge. Seriously huge. We are seeing this already in computer screens and batteries for cell phones. It is harder and harder to find the minerals needed to produce what people want to consume. And are we going to stop people from consuming. No. Just look at the "gas shortage" this week. People will over consume if they don't think there is enough. Just because of me first mentality. People are stupid.
People are stupid and I think Musk knows this and is using it against them.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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rnbergren wrote: But the comments about the rare earth metals and other important elements for producing everything we use. That is huge. Seriously huge. We are seeing this already in computer screens and batteries for cell phones. It is harder and harder to find the minerals needed to produce what people want to consume.
Despite their name, rare-earth elements are relatively plentiful in Earth's crust, with cerium being more abundant than copper; they are just difficult to extract.
The problem with them being "harder to find" is due to the combination of because China being the world's leading producer and the US-China relations at the moment. This is making it difficult for the US to obtain them.
Nothing succeeds like a budgie without teeth.
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It seems to me that discussions in codeproject are getting more and more like Twitter spats
modified 6-Sep-22 21:01pm.
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What, when one person proclaims to be correct (ALL THE TIME), and all others are wrong? In that case, I suppose you have a point. 
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If you cut a potato in half, stick an electrode into each half and place the two pieces with their cut sides very close to each other but not quite touching, have you made a capacitator?
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
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If it powers the flux capacitator will we still need Mr. Fusion for time travel?
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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Place one half potato over each ear.
Whisper you question quietly.
Await their answer.
If they do not reply within 23 minutes then they consider he question a bit half-baked.
Even so, and to bake better, wrap the entire assembly in foil (potato-halves, electrodes, head) and keep that in place until they do answer.
Enlightenment will surely follow.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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In this country at least, no. You'd have made a capacitor. 
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Maybe this is something well known, and I'm just late to the game: If you have a cordless tool, you are likely on a forced replacement scheme, and you don't know it. About 10 years ago I bought a cordless hedge trimmer, and its worked well. In the winter I bring it inside and store it, battery out, in the basement where it keeps relatively nice and warm. This year, after recharging the battery overnight, I went out yesterday to trim the hedge. The battery (NiCad) ran down after about 5 minutes, so I'm guessing its just not holding a charge any longer. No problem, I'll just go to the vendor, a national chain, and get a new battery, right? Um, no. That particular battery is no longer available. And so far, I've been unable to locate a third party replacement part.
It looks like the battery pack is screwed together, so maybe I can take it apart, and replace the individual cells. Maybe. Its probably soldered together, and I'm not sure I'd trust my soldering skills if I have to solder directly to the replacement cells, if I can even find something suitable.
So, in all likelihood, I'm going to have to bin an otherwise perfectly good hedge trimmer, just because I can't replace the battery pack. That's just wasteful. Not to mention an added cost. I do have an old pair of hedge trimming shears, and I used them to finish the job. Maybe I'll just stick with them. But if I replace the electric trimmer, I'll definitely consider a corded trimmer rather than cordless.
So if you have cordless tools that are a few years old, it might be worth buying a spare battery pack, or two, for the future.
Keep Calm and Carry On
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I bought a cordless drill a few years ago for 'the convenience'  and the battery crapped out as you described a couple years later.
My current electric drill is the same corded one that my in-laws bought me for Christmas the year my wife and I got married: 1980.
Software Zen: delete this;
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