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OriginalGriff wrote: that is only used for specialist stuff these days
The whole embedded universe. Companies fight to get C programmers, because there are no more. And if they have assembler experience expect the fight to become bloody.
There is more need of firmware engineers than of another JavaScript Kiddie.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Yes. Specialist stuff. That you need good solid real-time embedded experience to work with, and if you don't have that ... you aren't going to produce anything the even works, let alone is useful. You and I both know how little desktop experience carries over to the embedded world where even using malloc is a recipe for fragmented memory and an app that crashes every week because there isn't a fragment of memory big enough left out of the tiny amount you started with. 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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True, but still C is a prerequisite to develop firmware, the rest is "easily" adjusted - i.e. I was baffled when I saw most functions using static local variable, until I discovered that stack space is carefully calculated and allocated to the byte (well, roughly) during configuration phase.
Avoiding malloc and free is also quite easy, heck it's easier to not use them, especially considering how C programming is taught even in Computer Engineering courses.
And the hard core real time skill is needed only in a few critical parts of the system, all the rest is rote C code that also needs to be fast. I have no training on any real time systems and yet developed 2 firmwares very successfully, the BSP layer was already provided by the manifacturer. I just had to mind performance a bit more than usual. And scheduling is a breeze, it's really a single thread system with timed cyclic functions.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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WElcome to my world 
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After 2 years it's no longer welcome, it's "you can't escape now, you fool!" 
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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I once got a "great" job offer doing that, but didn't want to work on weapons, so turned it down.
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Hah, you reminded me of some code I read where the guy did this BIG malloc() at startup...
Because he managed his own memory for some data structure he had.
It required Real-Time controller feedback, and different things writing to the memory.
But the takeaway was that various conditions, beyond his control, would fragment total memory, and his otherwise more "timely/smaller" malloc() calls would fail. Causing Abends/Hard Faults. And requiring resets.
This is where the "linux pride" of saying "my system has been running continuously for 640 days!" harkens back to. It used to be a positive sign. When software designs and hardware designs were more stable!
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Yep.
I know of some of my real time embedded software that has been running continuously for over twenty years, with just ink tank swaps to keep it in consumables. Never use dynamic memory in real time projects!
Good grief, I just did the sums and that's over 7K days! I'm amazed the hardware has survived that long, particularly the ink side piping ... It's got to be brittle as heck by now ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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den2k88 wrote: whole embedded universe.
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And if you have electronic experience you can pretty much write your own check!
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And I'm missing that. Totally inept in electronics thanks to id-10t professor both in high school and University. Whatever I learnt has been on the job.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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I was lucky enough in my younger years to work with some electrical engineers that had the patience to help me. But I took a job here in FL 35 years ago that didn't require any electronic knowledge so I lost a lot over the years. But I picked it back up about 5 years or so ago and have tried to catch up...but I enjoy it so I take it at my own pace.
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If you don't do something for a long time you seem to lose the necessary skills. For instance, after living and working in Germany for 6 years I became fluent in German. Then I moved to the US, hardly spoke a word of it for 25+ years and now can hardly remember any of it. If I hear it in a movie I get this vague feeling of recognition, but the detail has gone.
However, I got on a bicycle after 30 years of no bike riding and could immediately ride it with no problems. Go figure!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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I will probably learn a lot more now that my dad got into rail modelling and is biting more than he can chew - he's a great electrician but knows nothing of digital programming. I got volountold to help him
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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den2k88 wrote: volountold
+1
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Most likely failed C programmers trying to make a living teaching.
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I didn't, BASIC commodre & BBC (well Acorn Electron!), Only started with C when I had an Amiga and wanted do something that was a hugh 68K assembly job (possibly a raster colour bank). C was the first language at Uni, which is probably where these comments, question come from. People learning to program by being taught, rather than peeking under the lid.
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OriginalGriff wrote: Why are so many peopel ...
Yeah, I agree. More peopel should learn ENGLISH as a first language... 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
Mark Twain
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English is my first language.
Spelling is about my fourteenth ... 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Would you rather learn to drive on a Tesla Model X or on a Subaru Impreza ?
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Yep. Cheap, slow, and easy to manoeuvre.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I checked the price forn an Impreza not long ago. Way out of my pockets, sadly.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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I learned to drive on this one[^]. Everyone takes power steering for granted nowadays. You needed some muscles to turn the wheel back in the days.
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