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OriginalGriff wrote: And I tend to worry about PC based scopes: just how good is the isolation
Good catch, Picoscopes aren't isolated, so you need to know what you're doing.
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I've got isolation on my USB hub.  Nothing on my bench connects directly to my PC. Ever.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I hope you aren't confusing isolation with a fuse. 
Just keep track of your ground and there should be no problem.
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The USB hub has a guarantee of protection for devices, which is part of why I bought it.
Now, those guarantees themselves? I'll probably never use one, but it tells me they've put some thought into power spikes.
Whether it's isolated or fused, it's enough for me.
My computer is worth only twice what one of these scopes will wind up costing me and everything I develop these days is under source control so if my house burns down because of a bad I2C +3.3vdc wiring job  I'll be fine.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I always view instruments that use part of a PC for operating are kinda dodgy, PICO scopes work for some but if you are dealing with I2C and tracing the signals can be a bit dodgy, as Windows is not real time OS it will do some thing else when you are trying to see if an out goes to ground and accurate time information...
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But the scopes I'm looking at have internal memory. I assume this basically has the effect of (if not being explicitly employed as) a buffer.
For example, the PicoScope 3000 has a 512 million sample buffer.
That's much more than I'm running for my ASIO audio output from my windows machine, and that demands "real time enough" performance from Windows as well - skips will skip the audio and people use this for live performances on stage all the time.
48khz@128bits per sample (2 channels, 64-bit floats/doubles for each channel, DAT quality) at 2ms buffer and no skips.
I need to do the math on this. meh. 
Real programmers use butterflies
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Like I said, horses for courses! Tracing I2C you should be able to do with most PICO's but be aware that you are not 'seeing it' in real time. Also if you are running alot of stuff like ASIO audio, before running the scope unplug the audio and anything else that may put a demand on time... just sayin' been bitten by that...
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glennPattonContracting2 wrote: Tracing I2C you should be able to do with most PICO's but be aware that you are not 'seeing it' in real time.
Realtime actually wouldn't be that useful to me at all. It moves too fast. What I need is something that lets me *log* at the bus speed and then will display me the results after-the-fact. The key is though, I need to be able to reliably sample busses at 20MHz or maybe even 40MHz or I'll end up outgrowing this thing. 40MHz might be a bit of a stretch but if i can, bonus. The reason being is SPI works different on the ESP32 at different speeds, so I need to be able to check the bus in different speed configurations.
glennPattonContracting2 wrote: Also if you are running alot of stuff like ASIO audio
I'll put it on another core. I have 8 to pick from, each with two hardware threads. God bless Ryzen 7 APUs. I plan to do all this while I'm gaming too.
Seriously though, thanks for the heads up. I'll keep that in mind.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Sound like what you want is a Logic Analyser rather than a scope.
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TBH, I want both, and from what I've seen, modern offerings like that PicoScope line recommended upthread do both, but I probably should have asked for that to begin with. I still get the two mixed up even though I know the difference - am still relatively green with all the hardware mess.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I think I'm the opposite of "green" - last used a logic analyser in the 80s for a board I build running an 8088 processor (and the last time I did any x86 assembly!)
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This has been a trial by fire for me. I got into the hardware end of things w/ Arduinos and then ESP32 SoCs as a hobby but then I got scouted - on here actually - and now I'm doing it for keeps, and pretty soon I am getting into some real time industrial stuff for my next gig (same client, but he basically finds work for me - i tag along on his endeavors to provide hardware and software support and he finds the jobs but it's all b2b)
So the learning curve has been steep, but gratifying. I've not really messed with digital circuits (aside from basic repair) since I was six or seven when I had one of those 200-in-one kits from Radio Shack, until just recently. The toys are bigger and more complicated now.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I'm sure you'll have fun learning and get some great results!
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I have been in the electronics business professionally since 1986 and I have used all sorts of scopes, both in labs and many obscure places where I needed them for troubleshooting. As I always needed a laptop as well Picoscopes have always been very practical. For I2C etc... the software that comes with them resolves all of the I2C traffic perfectly. So yes: highly recommended.
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That's the second recommend for the Siglent 1104x-E
I'm definitely putting that on my top consideration now. I like the front panel interface, but I wonder if those dials are also controllable in software? Unfortunately the wall mount for TV won't put this form factor of TV higher than it is, so it's flush with my desk at the bottom. That means I don't want to put the scope on my desk necessarily. I'd rather keep it beside my bench, and run the thing through software, though having the knobs is a win.
I'm going to check out those logic analyzers too.
Thanks!
Real programmers use butterflies
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I'm totally interested in it. Imma DM you so you have my email.
Real programmers use butterflies
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And here's a third. I got one of them and and 10 or 20Mhz 8 channel fleabay logic annalyser last year.
Yep - the dials are all software controllable. It's programmable as a mofo, and will be used to perform automated pass/fail tests for me in the future via telnet (or maybe wifi).
Wish I had it 20 years ago.
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If money is no object, I love my Tektronix DPO4000B with an I2C module. It decodes all kind of serial buses (I2C, SPI, etc.). I think they have now been replaced by a new series (MDO ?) but I’m not planning to upgrade. Bought it about 10 years back but the build quality is superb. Cannot say much about Tektronix tech support because I’ve never called them. Their tools just work.
And oh, this is not a silly scope, it’s a serious, buttoned down, workhorse 
Mircea
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That's probably more than I need. It looks fantastic, but I don't want to spend what I would on 2 or 3 PCs for it.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I had one of those momentary thoughts of horror - nightmarish; like someone stepped on your grave, but more like they take their dog for its "exercise" their on a daily basis. In so many ways, it's impossible for anyone to stomach it, but, here it is:
Please, with the upcoming bunny & eggs festival, do not subject Bob to this. Do not dress him up as a "Peep"[^].
🤮
If not for his sake then surely for ours !
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
modified 18-Mar-21 13:17pm.
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How about dressing Bob in an Easter bonnet? 
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Even dressing him as one of those egg-laying rabbits is preferable to the ignominy of that evil omen to which I was subjected.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Hmm... how about Bob as a kneidl (matzo dumpling)? 
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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