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No, they go into a fugue and toccata the walls.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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I'd like to not that that's a rather Strauss-ful preposition and you coda toned it down. I'll Beethoven you don't know!
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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(Not that I'd ever used Teams, but you all know how that goes...)
My neighbour has been having problems; he can't get the "join now" button to enable when he follows a link.
So it took a while, because I took my Surface so we could set up a meeting and make sure it all worked, which meant my phone as well to provide a portable hotspot for me, and installed Teams desktop, set up a team, added him to it, sent him an invite ... and found the problem: he hadn't selected an audio source. Click on that, and it all "just works" and pretty damn well (well, apart from audio feedback)
Only I got thinking ... I'm on my Surface, which is WiFied to my phone, which is 4Ged to a radio mast, which talks to a base station, which talks to Vodaphone, which uses fibre to connect to the internet, which connects to Seattle, which talks to the internet, which uses fibre to go back under the ocean to talk to Sky (his ISP), to talk to a BT exchange for his broadband, which talks to his lappie via his WiFi so I can ask him to plug in some headphones because the feedback is hurting my ears ... 
And it all worked. From one end of a dining table to the other via a different continent and a huge variety of physical and logical connections we get good quality moving pictures. All by clicking a link in an email!
Clarke was right: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - but only for 90% of the population who have no idea how it does work ... and that doesn't include us, now does it?
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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En français c'est mieux!
I'd rather be phishing!
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Et en joual, ce serait encore mieux!
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Osti de crisse de tabarnak! T'as raison
Mircea
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It's curious that profanity in Spanish, or even related Scandinavian languages, will carry over to other places that speak the same language, whereas someone in France who isn't familiar with Québecois French would scratch their heads at joual profanity.
And what's with that k! There's no k in proper French words! At least the Italians are consistent here. I was rather impressed when first seeing chilometri!
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Not entirely true: "gilipollas" is a word in official Spanish dictionary, albeit not the cleanest one, I admit. Meanwhile in South America it's very offensive and you'd better be careful when you use it. The other way around is also true: in Chile they have the "Polla de Beneficiencia" (national lottery) and I let you figure out what "polla" means in Spain 
Quote: And what's with that k! There's no k in proper French words!
That's the English for you. Reminds me of a personal story in my first year in Quebec: I go to the auto mechanic and ask in proper French "Est-que vous pouvez vérifier les freins, s'il vous plaît?". I get a blank stare for a moment and then he goes: "Ah, tu veux checker les brakes".
Mircea
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It's strange how it's been influenced in some ways but not others. I knew a francophone from Ontario who took an assignment in Paris. He'd use a word in a meeting and someone would say, "That's not a word." So he'd tell them to get the Larousse out. And there it would be, marked "archaic".
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That's what isolation does: Quebec was (mostly) cut off from French language dynamic in the 18th century and remained there while mainland French changed. Note that I'm not using the word evolved
One such curiosity is the Ocracoke Island[^] in US.
Mircea
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And I suppose you've been wondering why some have taken to covering their heads with metallic foil?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Where 100% have no idea: Easter Island, Stonehenge, Pyramids, Peru Hieroglyphics, ...
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Scenario: You have a debt you have been unable to pay for what ever reason.
Courts: You are going to jail until you repay the debt.
Interesting solution. If you are in jail, then you are not making money.
Of course, I have known people who were in jail and had work release. If that is the case, then they are probably golden.
Why?
If they were renting and have friends or family to move their things to storage. Then they can stop paying rent. After all, the government is now providing room and board. So not having to pay rent, electric, water and whatever, mean they can raise the money for the debt.
Of course, most of what they save is coming out of the public coffers (taxes) to support them.
Issue:
If they do not get work release, then they are not making any money and cannot repay the debt. While we are still paying for their room and board.
Question:
I have always wondered if debtors prison hand a work release program or was indentured servitude the only way out?
What are your thoughts?
INTP
"Program testing can be used to show the presence of bugs, but never to show their absence." - Edsger Dijkstra
"I have never been lost, but I will admit to being confused for several weeks. " - Daniel Boone
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I think this is rare to non-existent unless (a) your debt was the result of fraud; (b) you can pay but refuse to after a court order; (c) you owe a fine to the state.
It's pointless to put someone in prison if they legitimately can't pay. It's easier to garnishee their earnings. And if they get a bad credit report, it becomes very expensive, or even impossible, for them to get credit. Even the government will do other things to make life difficult, such as not renewing your driver's license or license plates.
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I would assume that this varies a lot with the jurisdiction - and with the age. It wouldn't surprise me the least if it varies from state to state in the US of A.
In the old days in Norway (I think we need to go back to the 1800s), you could be thrown in jail for not paying your debt. But in those days, you were then forced to do hard work in prison - chain gang style - until the pay covered your debt.
Today, you are punished for crimes, not for being out of money. If you are fined for some offence, in principle, you can 'pay' by going to prison for a few days (I am not sure that this goes for all sorts of fines), but it is not really a 'pick your choice' thing: It applies only if there is no way that you can dig up the money in any foreseeable future. I doubt that it has been the case in any case for the last fifty years in Norway, but the paper rule still exists.
Rather, Norwegian law gives the authorities the right to demand that any future employer withholds a certain amount of your pay (similar to holding back income taxes) until your debt is paid. Some people may for the rest of their lives see only a fraction of their 'real' pay in their bank account. If the debt is not paid when the person dies, his heirs may accept to inherit the debt, and retain full control over the heirlooms - or they may escape from the debt but loose all rights to anything that the deceased person leaves behind. (In practice, they will always be allowed to keep things that have minimal values to others, such as photo albums, hand written material etc.)
In Norwegian prisons, even today you are obliged to do some work/activity, not to earn money to pay your debt, but to keep you from sinking into a mental black hole of nothingness, as a psychological sort of treatment. It might as well be taking classes at a university offering internet lectures. That is quite different from paying your debt.
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John R. Shaw wrote: Of course, most of what they save is coming out of the public coffers (taxes) to support them.
Charge money for being in prison. Don't we do that already?
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harold aptroot wrote: Charge money for being in prison. Don't we do that already?
We do. But it's charged to the taxpayers, not the individuals in prison.
Well, those individuals are probably also taxpayers, but what they pay individually doesn't even come close to covering their own costs.
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That's why those individuals are billed in addition to taxed.
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harold aptroot wrote: That's why those individuals are billed in addition to taxed.
I must admit I'm not familiar at all with the prison system correctional services, but I've never heard of such a thing. At least not around here in Canada. Nor have I done any research on this topic.
But given that (as I remember some article from years ago) it actually costs more than $100K per year per inmate to keep someone in a jail, I can't really see someone being charged for their own costs.
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The US version at least is called "pay-to-stay". In NL it was going to be called "eigen bijdrage" (own contribution) but that law didn't pass the senate, it would have been (initially) €16 per day which is less than 10% of the cost. Of course the obvious way to fix that bug is to increase the amount charged, which I have no doubt would have happened - merely changing the amount would have been easy after the principle had been established.
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Thanks for that info. I have heard about that in the past and it makes sense. It would help mitigate at least some of the cost.
INTP
"Program testing can be used to show the presence of bugs, but never to show their absence." - Edsger Dijkstra
"I have never been lost, but I will admit to being confused for several weeks. " - Daniel Boone
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Nowadays in the US of A, with those profit-oriented, commercial prisons: Aren't prisoners rented out as working slaves to big industry as slave workers? According to the reports I have heard about this business, the prisoners are "paid" for their work - typically less than USD 4/day.
I have my doubts that the "employers" (i.e. the big businesses buying the slave workers) get away with paying USD 4 for a day's work. The commercial prison most likely is paid a lot more. So you could very well say that the prisoner pays for his stay, by the true value of his work less USD 4/day.
One of the my sources tell that since this "Prison Industry Enhancement Certification Program" was instated in 1979, the number of inmates have increased by more than a factor of seven - from 300.000 to 2,2 million. That certainly does not reflect the crime being 7+ times higher today. Actually, the level of crime hasn't increased very much at all; it is just used far more as an eyecatcher for selling news reports.
It is worth noting that Penal labor in the United States - Wikipedia[^] includes this is article in a series on slavery.
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I'm of two minds. On one hand, if people are deserving to be in prison, why not put them to work. I don't see why they should get paid for it. They're otherwise not going to be productive anyway, and that's not useful to anyone.
On the other, when the prison system gets so twisted they have an actual incentive to keep more people incarcerated - then the system isn't working.
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It depends, if the investigation proves that one can pay the debt but is willfully not doing it then it's a fitting punishment. If the person simply can't, it depends on which kind of debt it is and how it was incurred - i.e. if the debts are due reparation to the victim of a debtor's crime or not.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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