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honey the codewitch wrote: It sounds like Adam's work should be accessible. Can't you derive from that, and tell all of these copyright/license trolls to take a hike? That's what I would do.
No, that license is worse than the GPL licence. I have enough experience in this area that I think I know what's going on here...
I suspect that Adam modified his project at a later date and added his license. Even though I am not a lawyer... I submitted over a dozen open source projects through the MSFT 'Source Code Compliance Team' and got them approved for inclusion in Windows 10. So I got to read all of those legal determinations.
There is no way LibIDN would have used that source code if the original work contained those particular paragraphs. Adam had to have added it at a later date.
I am just going to avoid it.
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Bummer!
Real programmers use butterflies
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You should take a look at the CP License, it's basically the same purpose as the MIT, but it adds a bit of protection for you.
Chris went through the whole license quagmire a few years ago and decided to create his own license[^] (with the help of a lawyer IIRC) to fit the whole purpose of Codeproject.
Chris's comparison for most open licenses is over here: Licenses[^]
With links to the actual license texts.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger
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Just FYI, from what I read it seems like CPOL isn't compatible with GNU GPL:
- So if you have a GNU GPL dependency it might be illegal to use a CPOL license on your project,
- and it might be illegal for anyone who uses a (viral) GNU GPL dependency to use your work under a CPOL license.
license compatibility - Can I use CodeProject code in a GPL project? - Open Source Stack Exchange[^]
Quote: CPOL is not an open source license according to the OSI definition. It has a clause which does not allow it to be used for any purpose as mandated by the GPL or MIT license:
Quote: You agree not to use the Work for illegal, immoral or improper purposes, or on pages containing illegal, immoral or improper material.
If that's true it makes CPOL more restrictive than BSD, can anybody weigh in on this? Was this intentional?
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I think the best person to answer that is @chris-maunder
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger
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Yes, it would be nice to have an official response.
As you might imagine it's quite a huge risk to leave this sort of thing up to chance. I hope the SE post is incorrect.
Maybe adding something to the license like the DUMB decoder did might help reassure people that CPOL can mix with GNU GPL, if it wasn't CPOL's intent to add breaking clauses:
dumb/LICENSE at 396caa4d31859045ccb5ef943fd430ca4026cce8 · kode54/dumb · GitHub[^]
Sadly there's not much room for "creativity" when it comes to compatibility with viral licenses. I can't afford the lawyers and I wouldn't know one who could answer this anyway (no precedent anywhere).
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I wonder how immoral or improper would end getting defined in court. They're not the same as illegal.
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Yes, it was intentional.
When the CPOL was created the legal climate around software was vague and, frankly, dangerous for developers. We were aware of cases against software developers who had given away code without any self-protection and we determined that it would be a disservice to our members not to offer them protection (and choice, obviously)
Our lawyers highlighted one case in particular where a developer was sued because their code was used for malicious purposes. This motivated us to put the "don't be bad" clause. Further, things like being clear about the jurisdiction can be the difference between a developer getting treated fairly and a developer getting hung drawn and quartered.
We're not a fan of GPL because while it's "open and free" in the sense you get to see the code and you can use it how you wish, you're not actually free to make proprietary extensions of the code. You add your own cleverness, do some amazing work using the code, and you MUST open it up to the world. That's not how the world works.
So the CPOL is about
1. Protecting our members who share code by buttoning down the many legal agreements that were out there
2. Ensuring other developers can use our members' code freely, and to innovate with that code commercially
3. To ensure the code was open, in the sense that the source code must be available to read
cheers
Chris Maunder
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I understand, thanks for the response!
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It seems to me if you use only the original code then only the original license applies. Any other derivations of it are then irrelevant to you and your use of it.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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Rick York wrote: It seems to me if you use only the original code then only the original license applies.
No, that would be not be an option. When making a choice for licences you want to use something with legal precedent.
Btw, the best document I have ever read regarding choice of OSS licences is by the Department of Defense[^]. I can't find it but they use to go in depth on why you can't just take some random: "Anyone can use this!" type licence.
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So....
it's licenses all the way down... 
If you can't laugh at yourself - ask me and I will do it for you.
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I avoid anything longer than a page; ergo, I use no "open source" code.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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I used to do R&D and some consultancy for a small firm, mostly for idiot bosses that didn't understand anything beyond billing people.
One time, my boss handed me a "ready-to-go" project from "a really disruptive young developer" with the intent of having me do some minor visual tweaks and general QA.
The project consisted out of a painstaking manual recreation of an existing proprietary UI, some GPL-3 source code, and 1 major project under a very dubious "you now owe us 10.000" custom license.
My boss eluded that "he gave the developer a picture of the original software, so he would know what to build" and basically considered the entire thing a new and original work.
Because he had asked a guy to build it for him.
The stupidity of some people. 
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Now I feel better. It feels like I'm taking my degree together with you lol 
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
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Did we actually save your life? Wow! Chris, I think we need a new member badge for "life saver".
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... I'm glad to say - as the dozy sod in the car behind me found out today, and it still managed to stop in time on a wet road with no help from him at all!
So I still have a car - albeit without Autonomous Emergency Braking - and his is unwrecked as well ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I had a similar incident some years ago on the M3. Traffic suddenly started breaking and I could see the look of fear on the poor kid's face in my rear-view mirror, as he stood on the brakes. Once we had stopped he and his GF got out full of apologies; and as she put it, "sorry, but the brakes are f***ed".
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I had one on the M1, one Friday night in a gawd-awful company pool car: Ford Cortina Estate that had been abused so much that it lurched right when you accelerated, and lurched left when you braked.
Anyway, traffic ahead had stopped for an accident, so I slammed on the anchors, desperately steered it in a straight(ish) line, and stopped. Reached for the handbrake, glanced in the mirror in time to see the car behind plow into my ass at seventy. Rammed me into the car in front (and wrote that off as well), shorted the Craptina by a good couple of feet, and split the fuel tank ... Fortunately, no major injuries.
Took me over a year to get comfortable stopping at traffic lights in case the guy behind didn't though.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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My last car got pushed half way across an intersection. I was waiting at a red light when a truck gave me that little push. The idiot did not brake at all because he was too busy with his brain pacemaker.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Happened to me as well a few years ago, at a much lower speed I'm happy to say.
The car in front of me concluded that there was no visible damage and took off, I got superficial damage on my rear bumber as the towbar took the brunt of the crash.
The car behind me had to be towed, my towbar went straight through the cooler and had cracked his engine block.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: The car behind me had to be towed, my towbar went straight through the cooler and had cracked his engine block.
Carma
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Before going freelance, my employer sent me on a defensive driving course. I learnt about always having an eye open for an "escape route" and awareness of traffic ahead and behind. The following week I was on the M25 middle lane, approaching a spot where traffic cops had pulled someone over. Of course everyone slowed to rubberneck, and about 3 cars ahead of me an end-on collision occurred. I knew I could stop short, but I also knew I had a petrol tanker about 50' off my bumper. I was able to release the brakes enough to safely steer into a narrow gap between the guy ahead in the fast lane and the barrier - that I was already aware of. Everyone came to a stop, including the tanker - about 20 yards beyond where I would have come to a stop. Never been so grateful for having been sent on a course by my employer! 
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Amen. That's something that keeps me alert especially at the end of a long trip. Thinking, "What am I going to do if the idiot over there does 'X'."
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I don't doubt that these systems work in 'normal' situations, but always wonder what happens when two critical situations happen at the same time. Like when I'm driving a race, riding in the wind shadow of the guy in front of me in a curve and getting ready to overtake him when the curve ends. When that dumb thing hits the brakes then, I may not even get a chance to strangle the idiot who developed and tested that thing. As always, when I fly off the road, i want it to be my fault at least.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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