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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: didn't they refer to the smallest denominations as pence, like t'pence. At least they did in Mary Poppins
That was tuppence - two pence. Not the smallest denomination, but twice of that.
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I was in a business meeting with a FinTech company around 2010, discussing a system that calculated insurance premiums, resulting in odd pennies instead of nice "round" numbers. I made the grave mistake of referring to a figure of £1.03 as "a pound and thruppence". The meeting was adjourned whilst the younger delegates wiped their eyes and picked themselves up off the floor. 
I have given up referring to a 5p as a "shilling" but do still think in terms of "tuppence", "thruppence". I find that if I'm shocked at the price of something (like a chocolate bar), it's because I've mentally converted it into shillings. I used to get a shilling a week pocket money (5p) through much of 70s, but that meant I could buy a simple Airfix kit every three weeks, and have change for a Mars bar the fourth...
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Back when the UK pound was worth about $5
If only. AFAIRC it stood at around $2.40 in 1971, and I don't think it ever got higher.
Yes, we did call the small currency pence, but still used the d suffix in written form. Most confusing to foreigners but natural to thos of us who grew uo in the 60's and earlier. 2d was twopence (pronounced 'tuppence'), 3d threepence (pronounced 'thruppence'). Then there were the odd names for other denominations: a tanner - 6d, a bob - 12d, which was a shilling, etc.
As to the Euro, it was supposed to bring stability, but I believe it has done more harm than good. But then I am a reactionary old gammon.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: As to the Euro, it was supposed to bring stability, but I believe it has done more harm than good.
The idea was a good one, if the goal is a United States of Europe. No modern state manages with the hodgepodge of currencies, fiscal policies, etc. that used to exist in the EEC. The problem is that an EU-wide currency was introduced without an EU-wide body in charge of fiscal policy, including an EU-wide research organization. This allowed certain countries to fudge the data so that they would be allowed into the Euro zone, and continue fudging the data until their bankruptcy was manifest.
Naturally, expecting previously-independent countries to allow external fiscal researchers (AKA snoops) into their innermost sanctum was a bit too much to expect.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Very true. The politicians and bureaucrats were so keen to expand the EU that they admitted countries that they knew could never match the strict criteria that were applied when the UK was joining.
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Well, according to this[^] . . . wait for it . . . almost there . . . you are right!
My excuse (actually likely correct, but it was a while ago) is that I probably confused it with that "Europe on $5 a Day" concept running around. Our biblical tome was "Let's Go Europe" and ISSTA was our travel agent (except to/from NYC/Luxemburg, via Icelandic Air, which was $165 round trip.
The other currancies were pretty low and it turned out that, lacking a job for the summer, it was cheaper to send me to Europe with my backpack than let me stay home. (DM, FF 1/4 and 1/5 dollar, respectively, at the time - I think).
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Part of the problem with the pound at that time was that we were still repaying our wartime loan to the US government. Had the pound really been worth $5.00 it would have been repaid much sooner than 2006. 
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...we (the UK) were one of the few countries to finally pay off this loan.
Lend-Lease was a political pay-off for FDR. It brought millions of dollars to the US allowing the Military-industrial complex to build huge amounts of stuff, have Britain pay for it, and yet keep the US out of the war for a couple of years. FDR stalled on real help against Hitler, stringing Churchill along until the Pearl Harbour attack brought the US into a war with Japan. Even then, it wasn't until several days later that Hitler declared war on the US, saving face for FDR who was actually still opposed to getting involved in a European war, and we all got on with defeating the most evil form of fascism the world had seen.
Curiously enough, although Lend-Lease was praised as "saving Britain" it only added about 1% overall to the weapons stash used by Britain to fight of the Nazis for a couple of years, basically alone but with real, massive help actually coming from the Commonwealth.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Perhaps the price for each is quoted because sometimes you have to buy more than one to get the lower price, but that isn't the case here.
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Some stores do exactly what you say. This one, never.
Interestingly, I rarely buy things in the stores that try to force me to buy more than I want.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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my favorite thing to do in the supermarket, or any store really.
My Sale rings up for lets say $16.03
I hand clerk $21.03. Clerk then tries to hand me back the $1.03. Gentle arguement ensues. I calmly get them to just punch in the 21.03. and take my fiver from them while they are sitting their wide eyed wondering what other magics I know.
To err is human to really mess up you need a computer
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Yup - happens rarely now - because I rarely use money (credit cards give cashback and it really does add up).
So - they're off the hook.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I used to do that often. I found that in most stores they would get it right because the person either entered the numbers or could figure it out. The people in fast food places had the most trouble. Those who tried mental arithmetic rarely got it right.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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I agree with Wonko the Sane: It was clear the whole world went mad when we started putting instructions on boxes of toothpicks.
Real programmers use butterflies
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What kind of toothpicks?
Wood: mint or regular? Plastic colors? Perhaps little plastic swords or with some colored cellophane flourishes? Those for actually picking teeth are designed somewhat differently than those for impaling hors devours.
And, of course, wrapped or boxed. Which all should go to prove something.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Wood: mint or regular? Plastic colors? Perhaps little plastic swords or with some colored cellophane flourishes? Those for actually picking teeth are designed somewhat differently than those for impaling hors devours.
And, of course, wrapped or boxed. Which all should go to prove something.
It all goes to show the joys of late stage capitalism. See also, bacon flavored vodka.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Re: Bacon flavored voodka.
I have a very concise viewpoint on bacon, bacon eaters, and the accursed derivatives thereof.
"You are what you eat".
Although I think it is the second swipe at capitalism you made today, I find that both it and socialism are doomed to fail: evolutionary human nature - the survival instinct for yourself and your genes are the culprits. In way-back-when, they were a great idea. Even now, they can be expressed in parental bonding to children where they'd put their life at risk to save the next generation(s). Fine. But it also manifests as greed.
Unbridled capitalism fails because, just for a start, it results in monopolies and trusts which destroy the supply/demand concept and stifles innovation and growth.
Socialism fails to take this into account, as we, in the instinct's predilection to hoard for yourself and your own spawn to help ensure their survival. To each according to their need is, in fact, vague: what is it one needs if left to their own devices?
In either case, we converge to the same points for what are, more or less, synonyms: monarchy/authoritarian/despot/dictatorship/communism - where there are those who know there share is a very large share indeed.
And, in either case, cronyisim, nepotism, &etc.
So, round and round we go. Until I am give total authority of all things, at which point we can take a deep breath, rest, and relax.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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We don't disagree about that at all. Trust me, were socialism** more significant on the world stage, you'd hear me take swipes at it as well.
** I'm not counting Democratic Socialism among socialist models since it as an attempt to reform capitalism, still preserves private property, and doesn't change who controls the MoP. It's still fundamentally capitalist - just CME capitalism vs American style LME capitalism.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Well - I hold in view Bernie Sanders and live in the same state as "AOC" (an artificial celebrity politician).
Democratic Socialists, both, the latter clearly proclaiming her affiliation. However,
In both cases I find them both very willing and able to spend other peoples money to buy themselves votes. Aside from a number of world-views, politically, which I find horrid - but in favor "with the party" (and I don't mean Democratic or Republican).
It's not just an economic point of view. Basically, same sh*t, different a**hole.[^]. What also speaks to her character was her $300 haircut - and justifying it.
My distaste for them is so intense that, had Sanders run for president I'd have been very seriously considering voting against him.
I think, with this response, I just blew the thread - so if anyone comes back at this I'll not let it turn into a back-and-forth. Somehow, political as it sounds, it wasn't meant to be so - yet, by definition it is. I'll take my drubbing, quietly
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I hold politicians in the same regard as I hold meth dealers. Different professions of course but in politicians cases their whole job is to fool you into letting them do things *to* you rather than *for* you and it's not like democracy changes that, because elections themselves create a pageant of narcissists. Now I'm paraphrasing douglas adams twice on this forum today so far when I say that no one who wants power is qualified to have it, ipso facto, or in other words, people are a problem.
My utopia would be a pluralistic social blueprint, a post-scarcity economy, and radically decentralized governance, typically by public assembly. In the US I'd prefer there be a million states with 320 people or so than 50 with a sweeping federal government to boot.
There's no way in hell I'm ever getting that, so I married a communist instead. That's how much it doesn't matter to me. 
Real programmers use butterflies
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honey the codewitch wrote: a pluralistic social blueprint
As far as I'm concerned, anything that doesn't create a nuisance for the neighbours is OK with me. I draw the line at human sacrifice, slavery, and child abuse, however, even if done quietly. 
honey the codewitch wrote: a post-scarcity economy
My prediction is that this will never happen. Once there is "a chicken in every pot", "a car in every garage", etc. someone will come up with the slogan "a star-ship in every spaceport". Where does it end?
honey the codewitch wrote: radically decentralized governance, typically by public assembly
This, at least, is possible. The Internet already provides the basic infrastructure, but issues such as verification of votes (and voters) are far from resolved.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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As I said, I was describing a utopia. I like people to articulate their utopias as a way to describe their political bent, so I do that myself. If I know what you'd like it tells me a lot about you.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Name a monopoly that was not franchised by government. There are dominant firms in some markets, but the top 10 market caps in the S&P500 changes from one decade to the next.
Socialism is one big monopoly, only run by the government. Which is supposed to somehow dispel all the evils.
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AT&T was a monopoly for many years. Somehow allowed - maybe their infrastructure was the excuse.
Eventually the government broke them up - but it does satisfy "name a monopoly".
In general, Pres Theodore Roosevelt put the nail in that coffin, for both true monopolies and trust (virtual monopolies). That was over a century ago (here).
It works so well, even organized crime is competitive.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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AT&T was government-sanctioned and eventually lost its sanction. Infrastructure is indeed the excuse for many of these so-called "natural monopolies", the argument being that only one firm could possibly afford to build out the infrastructure required for whatever. This is taught in economics courses today, at best because it sounds plausible. Yet if you look at the historical record, there are many examples of competition even within mid-sized cities when electricity service was first provided, for example. Same thing with telephone service and water.
There are almost no examples of monopolies arising in a free market. Teddy Roosevelt just went after large conglomerates, none of which were actually monopolies. Pure politics.
When it comes to organized crime, the difference between the government and the Mafia is that the government has flags in front of its offices. 
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