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Rage wrote: Back to the time when you had to type the code of the game before being able to play - books/magazines with floppy were still not a thing.
Yes, exactly! It was a great time really. 
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Back to the time when you had to type the code of the game before being able to play - books/magazines with floppy were still not a thing.
yup, and when you looked up close in all those one letter variables in somebody else's code they started to make sense.
like in a child's song: B is for base, C is for count, D is for data...
i've got nausea from names that have: Manager, Controller, Delegate, Container, Interface... and will get it in the near future from names containing: Function, Transform, Process, Calculate...
making games is probably the only type of software that doesn't get boring thanks to enemy AI.
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I discovered ROGUE on a MassComp UNIX box (MC Rogue - there were many flavors) in the late 1970's and it is the actual for real genuine inspiration for my buying my first computer. And my first software purchase (DOS came w/PC) was Epyx Rogue. It took me five years to finally win.
I had a rather long tome about the advances in the versions (Descedent) I now play:
Stone Soup's Dungeon Crawl 25.1[^] - this is the google search as there's so many entry points into how you'd start to see where it's gone.
You can chose to be one of 26 species, with one of 27 vocations and, if not assigned by either of the first two choices, one of 25 gods to worship (and their pros and cons). The last of these is only done if you can find the appropriate altar to that god.
Beware of spoilers, but if you wanted a descent description of the current status, there's the Crawl Wiki.[^] I play on my local machine (download) but it can also be played through your browser.
One tends to prefer a character with their own hopes, dreams and aspirations: thus, I am a Demon Spawn Berserker who follows Trog. Every choice, even when you start the game, has consequences. Amazingly diverting . . . and relaxing.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Great and interesting post.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: It took me five years to finally win.
That's amazing that you kept at it. 
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All events, locations of things of any type, etc., are always randomized. During that five years there was a trap I stepped on that I came across only once in all of that time (towards the end).
Thing about these - perhaps - is that they're for a generation of people who needed a bit more imagination because special effects were far less developed. You played a lot in what I think is still referred to as "your mind's eye". Even that expression - somewhat poetical an image drawn with words has been replaced by the much more 'flashy' rap. Games - ever closer to live (which is kinda neat) but ultimately a down side even to that: as phones have taken over so much of the social interactions of "the young", their gaming world can fill in their need for that personal interaction they now seem to dread when, well, in person.
So I admit - I use the tiled version - but also, in no small part, because the number of items and creatures to be recognized has grown so much. However, I am still adapting away from the mouse and more to the keyboard (no small feat) as it puts you more into the whole thing as muscle memory puts you more as one with the adventure.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: During that five years there was a trap I stepped on that I came across only once in all of that time (towards the end).
That must've hurt since it restarted everything. Maybe you were able to create Save Points along the way?
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Thing about these - perhaps - is that they're for a generation of people who needed a bit more imagination because special effects were far less developed. You played a lot in what I think is still referred to as "your mind's eye"
Yeah, in the past it took a bit more imagination to play games and we became accustomed to filling in the missing parts with our imaginations. Now games are so far the other way there are times when they are only pure muscle impulse reaction with little thinking.
The best games are a mix of old school and new graphics, but most game teams don't do that too well. It's a difficult challenge.
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raddevus wrote: That must've hurt since it restarted everything. Maybe you were able to create Save Points along the way?
Actually, no. I got a message that I stepped onto the trap but that was it. Whatever it did I didn't figure out. Just a message.
Now keep the following in mind (about ROGUE): a given item, such as a scroll, may give you different results when you read it. An example (sorry, a tiny spoiler): there's a scroll that if you read it and there's any food on the level it is lit up and you can go after it - but if there's no food, the same scroll will instead give a message "you feel a gnawing in the pit of your stomach". There are others that are, in fact, quite complex in their relationship. One has the ability to 'name' an object, such as a scroll, so you'd name it for the message - and then, if you get a scroll of "identify" and can spare it then you can identify the scroll and finally make the connection. The game's a learning experience. That's the fascination. Drinking potions, at certain times, is more advantageous than at others - but the necessity can interfere with that.
So it is with traps. Usually more definitive - like a poison dart trap or teleport or travel-paralysis for an unspecified period (whilst evil beasties might beat on you - and you can fight but can't run). When is is wise to fight in a corridor (possibly by running away) instead of standing one's ground?
Anyway - after over forty years and various forks, the principal of play still exists. One thing mentioned somewhere in Dungeon Crawl (it has manuals built in): when you are killed you likely had the means to save yourself in your possession.* I found this to be very true.
A new version, 26.0, is in the works, already. It supposedly will get rid of the food, altogether. Unlike in rogue, you can eat (some of) your kills and so the importance becomes extremely low. On the positive side, not storing true rations and 'chunks' (which rot quickly) opens up two new slots in one's limited pack.
* No - no restorable saves-along-the-way: perma-death. A game may be halted and restarted from that point. You could cheat, but that's no fun.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Thanks for the great post explaining Roguelikes so well. Very interesting.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: The game's a learning experience. That's the fascination.
That's really cool and is a big draw to these games for people who like that type of thing.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: when you are killed you likely had the means to save yourself in your possession.* I found this to be very true.
That's really great game / story design.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: * No - no restorable saves-along-the-way: perma-death.
I thought that's what it meant but wasn't sure.
Great stuff, thanks again.
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I do lots of programming for fun. Nearly all of it involves 3D graphics like my avatar object. I call it a "swollen asterisk" but it is a construct called a supershape.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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raddevus wrote: Remember when you were a kid and you just wanted to learn to program some simple games?
(a) Get a BBC Micro.
(b) Stare at the >_ prompt.
(c) Type "10" and begin.
Back when simple was simple. 
But of course I respect the book you're describing.
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I remember when I was a kid, and a program was a piece of paper that told me who was playing what role in a stage play, and what each act of the play depicted. Computers were a topic for science fiction books.  The first time I encountered an actual computer, it was behind a glass partition, and I had to hand the guy in a white lab coat my box of Hollerith cards, painstakingly punched late at night, and pray that the damned set would execute without error and produce a result the next day or so. That wasn't fun...
Will Rogers never met me.
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Roger Wright wrote: I remember when I was a kid, and a program was a piece of paper that told me who was playing what role in a stage play, and what each act of the play depicted.
Yeah, I was talking to my wife about "Choose Your Own Adventure[^]" novels which were like the first computer adventure games. 
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Should I sell my vacuum cleaner – it's only gathering dust?
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: it's only gathering dust
Ah, that sucks.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Unsuccessfully, I tried switching cable providers because all that ever seems to be on TV is dust.
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You Dyson say things like that.
I'm not sure how many cookies it makes to be happy, but so far it's not 27.
JaxCoder.com
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You definitely should. Obviously "Vacuum Cleaner" is an oxymoron 
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"
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An upright person, such as yourself, should not let themselves be hosed!
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Don't forget to also dispose of the old bag that came with it!
(Running, ducking, and rolling. )
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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If I am cleaning my vacuum, am I a vacuum cleaner?
Brent
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To go into public relations, issue odd initiative (10)
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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If I thought I'd be be able to set/post tomorrow's I'd answer, captain.
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