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That's how I want to feel. I've had a couple of terrible employers though, but most have been invested in me like i invest in them.
Part of me just wants to lay it out, so that if they still hire me I won't be second guessing if it's going to be a problem.
The other part of me thinks about the stigma around mental health (at least here in the states) and the silly idea that it's "personal/not relevant" - i believe it is relevant personally, just like if i was in a wheelchair, because i do need some accomodation, like having everything asked of me in writing because the condition murders short term memory and the ability to keep track of tasks.
Then again, how relevant, I don't know, as I was able to fake it more or less for years without even realizing i was sick (although the only thing i could do was code, my life was a mess otherwise and looking back, medicated, i can see that now)
So it's complicated. Meh. I have a friend in the field, who I think has some serious social issues and doesn't like to leave the house, and if i were to guess, probably a cluster-a in terms of mental health issues - and he manages, but he found a niche - he's the only developer at his company and without him they couldn't continue to do business at all. His entire framework is his own code, and while it's brilliant, nobody else can learn it. He's got more job security than just about anyone i know. He didn't do it on purpose, that was just his first foray into professional development and he's untrained but talented.
I'm not looking for that.
I don't know. Lots of moving parts. I've definitely got a lot to think about. I tend to agree with you though.
Real programmers use butterflies
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honey the codewitch wrote: So it's complicated.
Understatement of the century. I used to be a volunteer with a telephone help line and have spoken to hundreds of different people. Many had mental health issues, and I am fairly sure that every one was unique in some way. And the biggest problem for them was not to be taken seriously by the outside world.
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Definitely. Good on you for volunteering like that - I couldn't take on that sort of consistent emotional labor. Dealing with people in crisis is no joke. Respect. My hubby does a lot work with people in the margins, and there's always one crisis brewing or another. He manages, but I don't know how, even with me supporting him where I can.
Real programmers use butterflies
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We were a big team, part of a national organisation, and had lots of support.
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I had a gap in my CV too. In my case I started Maths College and droppped it, then I had 5 years to get a degree of 3 (3 years to do half a year)
When I was asked, I told the truth about the first gap. My father got a job offer abroad and I had had to repeat the access test (foreign language and so on). So I got in the surest to get accepted college to move my place to another college over there (way easier). But at the end, we stayed at home and I didn't like the topics (only C programming was interesting, the rest...  ).
The second point I just said "I was young and not very focused. Then I found my way and you can see the results." (At the end I got 2 degrees in 6,5 years).
I would go for the already told advice. "I had a break due to health issues but I am now better and would like to be back in the field".
If they ask, what?
I would answer: Why do you want to know? It is not relevant for the job description.
If they really get insitent, they are going to have prejudicies against it. So just stand up and leave, you will not want to work for them anyways.
About the CP articles... I already told it above... I would keep them out of the CV, at least the online version. If you want to show something, then print out some snippets of them (not the ones easily found here).
If they find your articles, they will be able to find all your posts. And this is your private time, nothing to do with your possible tasks, as far as it is something technical and not facing the public opinion.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
modified 31-Jul-20 9:23am.
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All very helpful advice. Thank you
Real programmers use butterflies
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You are welcome.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Hey,
Just be yourself and be honest about your life struggles. For what it's worth... it's not you that needs to change... it's the employers and their hiring/retention methods. The workplace has become dehumanized and tends to be cruel to anyone with special needs.
I've had to dedicate some of my time taking care of someone with special needs and I understand your struggle.
Best Wishes,
-David Delaune
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Thank you. 
Real programmers use butterflies
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Randor wrote: ust be yourself and be honest about your life struggles
To be honest doesn't mean to tell it all.
Randor wrote: it's the employers and their hiring/retention methods. The workplace has become dehumanized and tends to be cruel to anyone with special needs.
Totally agree with you. But even I agree, it is better to try to give your 2 (or 5) cents one you are inside, doesn't necessarily at the interview for a possible job.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Your medical issues are between you, your close family, and your doctors. Unless your medical issues are likely to make it impossible for you to perform your duties, or to become a danger to other employees, they are no business of your employer. Very few people are in perfect physical and mental health, and most of the rest of us manage to get through the day just fine.
The only information that prospective employers deserve is "I took some time off to work on personal projects", possibly with samples of some of your work from that time. How you paid the bills during that time is none of their business.
As others have mentioned, you may wish to consult with an HR person in your area. They are likely to know more about any local laws that may apply to your condition, etc.
EDIT: corrected grammar.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
modified 31-Jul-20 10:50am.
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There is no reason to go into great detail about why you took a break. I also consulted in the late 90's and early 2000's, before the .COM bubble burst. During that time, I worked continuously and it was a huge strain on me and my family. I reached a point of "burn out" and had to take a 9 month break, because of the mental strain. I almost lost my family through divorce and became financially bankrupt. I had to seek help and eventually came back.
My suggestions is that you reached a point where you had to take a break from the work force due to personal reasons, but continued with you own projects on your own time and continue to learn new things.
They don't need any more information than that.
"When you are dead, you won't even know that you are dead. It's a pain only felt by others; same thing when you are stupid."
Ignorant - An individual without knowledge, but is willing to learn.
Stupid - An individual without knowledge and is incapable of learning.
Idiot - An individual without knowledge and allows social media to do the thinking for them.
modified 19-Nov-21 21:01pm.
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I like your comment very much 
It does not solve my Problem, but it answers my question
Chemists have exactly one rule: there are only exceptions
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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Just say you took a break. If they ask you why then reply, "because I could."
You really do not need to elaborate any further. If this becomes an issue for a prospective employer then I doubt you would want to work for them anyway.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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Rick York wrote: "because I could."
That's a tough one, it's nice to know that an employee won't take a break "because they could", while in the thick of a development cycle. Whereas if there is a reason, even a very generic health reason, people may be more understanding.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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"Took time off to reinvent myself." Show them your articles. There are firms that "want" (only) those with an internet presence / blog / whatever. "Oh, you know who is on our team? ... etc."
(The "sharing" can be a problem ... need an alter ego.)
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Gerry Schmitz wrote: need an alter ego
You're right. I probably shouldn't be a superhero full time. 
Real programmers use butterflies
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A doctor noticed your lack of curly braces and you were diagnosed with severe mental disorder, but rest assured you'll be able to write them in company projects now 
Or just say medical issues that you've resolved.
The nature of those issues is a private matter.
Getting back into the field may be a sure way to go crazy again though.
You'll get to deal with people who just won't shut up about your lack of curly braces and all that 
Good luck though!
Judging from your articles here on CP, any employer should be happy to have such a technical miracle on board.
I'd say keep us posted, but I'm sure you will
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Sander Rossel wrote: A doctor noticed your lack of curly braces and you were diagnosed with severe mental disorder, but rest assured you'll be able to write them in company projects now
I'm sure that's what it was. The delusions and hallucinations are just incidental.
Sander Rossel wrote: Or just say medical issues that you've resolved
That could work.
Sander Rossel wrote: Getting back into the field may be a sure way to go crazy again though.
You'll get to deal with people who just won't shut up about your lack of curly braces and all that
TBH I've always been the weird corworker, but people work with me anyway because I can code. I'm told I'm gifted at it. Good, because I can't do anything else. Seriously though, my life was a mess because of my untreated illness, but the one thing I could always do was code.
I think a few years ago when I started having hallucinations and week long manic episodes it actually made me better at it - more fluid even. Code just comes to me now, I don't have to force it. Sometimes I don't even have to think about it. I just conjure an idea and let me fingers do the heavy lifting. It's kind of amazing to experience it. But I can still get creative block, unfortunately, so I put coding down for a month or two. I'm wondering if I can still force it for work. I haven't tried since I went over the high wall.
Sander Rossel wrote: Good luck though!
Thank you
Sander Rossel wrote: Judging from your articles here on CP, any employer should be happy to have such a technical miracle on board.
Aww, also thank you. You're very kind.
Especially now that you've put away the pitchfork. I'm a good-witch. Mostly.
Real programmers use butterflies
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honey the codewitch wrote: Especially now that you've put away the pitchfork. I'm a good-witch. Mostly.
Or have I put away the pitchfork because you're a good witch?
By the way, I remember you saying you were 100% disapproved to work.
In the Netherlands you get payment (I think the first two years from your last employer, at 80%) and after that from the government.
Anyway, long story short that I don't even know the details of, if you can't work because of health issues, you get money to live from.
If you go back to work, you stop getting money.
I actually knew someone who had a very good job (fisherman) with a very expensive insurance (because that was the only insurance company who would get him from sea if there ever was a problem).
He then broke his neck on board, was fetched with a helicopter and got a big fat insurance check and now gets 80 or 60% of his last salary from the government.
He can still work some jobs, and he wants to, but never for more money than he's now getting from the government.
So he stays at home, does an occasional odd job and makes sure he isn't seen working.
Does any of that apply to you if you go back to work?
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I am fighting for disability now (in the US it's always a fight, especially with mental health stuff)
But honestly, I don't want it. What I want is to work. This isn't even about money to me. Even if I lost the disability case and never worked again, we'd be okay.
Software was the one thing I could always do no matter what the rest of my life looked like.
That's why it's the first thing I think of when deciding what work to pursue again.
I do have a job, cleaning places, just to keep me working (it's not enough to put a dent in disability) but since the covid outbreak i haven't had contracts. My last two moved! It's kind of frustrating because the position is such that I don't have to work around others, I never hear from my supervisors and i set my own hours, but it's not what I'm looking for. It doesn't occupy me fully. I need something to give my brain work.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Well,
Many years ago I was a regular member over at the Physics Forums[^] where they will crack down with an iron fist against anything that doesn't fit the standard model.
One of the things Youtube has done... is reveal how many very prominent physicists have some very unusual and controversial ideas.
Kip Thorne[^] - Nobel Prize in Physics (2017) makes some bold statements about time travel.
Leonard Susskind[^] - very unusual hyperdimensional spacetime geometries.
The Closer To Truth[^] channel is another interesting youtube channel.
I've got to admit that my opinions about crackpot ideas has changed after watching some of the worlds nobel prize winners present unusual ideas.
Best Wishes,
-David Delaune
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"We all agree that your theory is crazy. We disagree on whether your theory is crazy enough to be true."
-- John A. Wheeler
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Hi Daniel, The quote seems like a paraphrase of a statement by Niels Bohr to Enrico Fermi, as quoted in Richard Rhodes superb book, "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" [^].
I'm quoting from memory, so might be off, but, I think Bohr said: "Your theory is crazy, but, not crazy enough to be true."
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
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