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raddevus28-Jul-20 2:25

28-Jul-20 2:25

Thanks for the input. Good to know which one you're using. Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

BryanFazekas29-Jul-20 1:45

29-Jul-20 1:45

My personal unit is an APC 550 which I've had for about 9 years. I got about 3.5 years from the first battery and the current battery is 5.5 years old. [Either I got lucky or the batteries are better.] This unit beeps and warns when the battery is failing, and it was easy to replace.

My work unit is a Tripp-Lite ECO580, and it's about 4 years old. Yesterday I discovered the battery is completely dead when I experienced 8 brown outs (very unusual), and my monitors went dead each time. The monitors are plugged into the battery side while the laptop is plugged into the surge protection only side.

Before buying a unit, ensure the battery can be replaced.

My first unit (cannot remember the brand) did not have a replaceable battery, so when the battery failed I had to recycle the entire unit. Both it and the APC cost about $75 USD, while the price for the battery for the APC was $25.

BTW: the units I'm familiar with have 2 rows of outlets -- one is surge protection only and one has surge protection + battery.

Plug only necessary items into the battery side. My personal unit has the CPU, monitor, cable-modem, and wifi router plugged into the battery side -- other items are plugged into the surge-only side. The battery power of a home unit is limited, so the more devices you have on battery, the faster it is expended.

Use the home unit to protect from brown-outs and provide time to gracefully shut down the system in the case of a full power failure.

raddevus29-Jul-20 11:24

29-Jul-20 11:24

Great info. I will keep these things in mind as I research what I will buy. Thanks very much for sharing. Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

BryanFazekas29-Jul-20 1:53

29-Jul-20 1:53

I did a quick search on surge protection. While the UPS has surge protection, one article suggested buying a separate surge protector to protect the UPS. A strong surge can damage the UPS, and a surge protector is cheaper to replace than the UPS.

This makes sense. The surge protection capability of a device is limited an erodes with usage. An old surge protector is nothing more than a power strip; it's necessary to replace surge protectors on a periodic basic. This article[^] explains how surge protection works.

I found several articles that recommend replacing the surge protector every 2 years, and if the unit is 10 years old, it's worthless as a surge protector.

It's a good bet my APC has no surge protection left, and the surge protector on my main TV is 15 years old and the one on my smaller TV is even older ... so I'll be making purchases this weekend.

dandy7229-Jul-20 3:51

dandy72

29-Jul-20 3:51

BryanFazekas wrote:
I found several articles that recommend replacing the surge protector every 2 years

2 years... OMG | :OMG:

Sounds like articles written by someone selling surge protectors and/or UPSes. Also, Amazon reviews are known to frequently be written by shills working for competing products.

Bad car analogy: Looks at the maintenance schedule in you car's owners manual. If you followed it to the letter, your car would be at the dealer for servicing more often than it would be parked in your own garage.

BryanFazekas29-Jul-20 4:17

29-Jul-20 4:17

dandy72 wrote:
Sounds like articles written by someone selling surge protectors and/or UPSes. Also, Amazon reviews are known to frequently be written by shills working for competing products.

Nope -- This was on several independent how-to sites. I use Amazon reviews ... but take them all with a 5# bag of salt.

Read the article I posted -- it describes how surge protection works. It appears there is no clear-cut way to determine if surge protection is still working, so taking into account how stable power is in your area AND how many joules your surge protection is rated for, the interval will differ.

Two years seems too short an interval. I 'spose it comes down to how risk-tolerant anyone is. If you have $2,000+ in equipment, spending $10/year on surge protection seems trivial.

Power in my area is typically very stable, yet I had 8 brownouts in a 30 minute period yesterday. Four years ago we had a lightning strike on a tree in my backyard, it burned out my router but didn't destroy the cable-modem. In hindsight, I should have replaced all surge protection at that time.

I'm researching units today as I have 2 units that are 15+ years old and a third is 5.

dandy7229-Jul-20 4:28

dandy72

29-Jul-20 4:28

The way I see it, if lightning strikes are a worry, then a 10$/year surge protector isn't going to do much and you'll need something a lot more bad-ass.

That's where insurance comes in anyway. So.......

Not suggesting anyone should do without. Just saying if your insurance covers it anyway, I see little problem in stretching the lifetime a bit more than the "recommended" timeframe.

BryanFazekas29-Jul-20 5:22

29-Jul-20 5:22

Lightning strikes are not a major concern, just a possibility. I included it for illustration.

Note that my router was destroyed, but all my other equipment was on the inside of the surge protection, and all of it survived unscathed. The surge protection DID make a difference.

Insurance may cover the cost of replacement, but it does not address the down time until replacements are installed, and it does not address the loss of data if your PC blows between backups.

Like many in IT, I'm WFH at this time. I cannot afford down time, in a very literal ($$$) sense, and insurance will not cover that.

YMMV

Roland M Smith28-Jul-20 2:37

Roland M Smith

28-Jul-20 2:37

I have a CyberPower 950VA in my office with computers & router and a smaller model in the living room for the TV and other components. I got them 2 months ago and they work great and have had to activate a couple times.

raddevus28-Jul-20 3:10

28-Jul-20 3:10

Good to know. Thanks for manufacturer and model info. Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

Dan Neely28-Jul-20 2:44

Dan Neely

28-Jul-20 2:44

I've probably got about 60 years runtime with various UPSes over the last 25 years. Never had a failure more serious than a battery declining to the point it couldn't keep the supported system online long enough to safe shutdown (generally 3-5 years before a new battery is needed). Mostly APC models - initially 300-600VA 'shoebox' models, subsequently entry level ($150 class vs $400 for the next level up) 1200-1500 VA 'mini-towers'); although my most recent model is a Cyberpower. I switched at the time for 2 reasons (not sure if either is still valid) - APCs newest entry level tower was getting a lot of complaints over an obnoxiously noisy fan when it was running, and modern Active PFC power supplies are pickier about the quality of AC waveform they get (lower runtime or in previously barely able to a power a system cases outright shutdown with simpler designs) but APC was only offering a stepped square wave at the $150 level and wanted $400 for a modified sine wave (AFAIK this just adds an extra component to slope the voltage transitions up/down) vs most of their competition offering it at the $150 point.

Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius

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-- Sarah Hoyt

raddevus28-Jul-20 3:12

28-Jul-20 3:12

Great info. I was wondering why a lot of people seem to be switching from APC to CyberPower.
I remember a company I worked for during Win3.1 days having APCs and they worked well, but that was a long time ago.

OriginalGriff28-Jul-20 2:46

OriginalGriff

28-Jul-20 2:46

They are brilliant!
But ... avoid the Chinese ones: it took three attempts to get one to me in a working condition (batteries are HEAVY and couriers treat "FRAGILE" as a challenge ...)
It lasted a year, and then the electronics went: it would switch over but it immediately turned itself off ... the batteries were fine, but it was useless.

Do I have one now? No - but I will again when I get around to it.

"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
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raddevus28-Jul-20 3:14

28-Jul-20 3:14

OriginalGriff wrote:
They are brilliant!

That's how I feel about them -- even though I've never had one, only seen them in action at various workplaces.

OriginalGriff wrote:
But ... avoid the Chinese ones:

I know there are a lot of knock-off products when ordering thru Amazon and I think people at various times end up with the knock-off instead of the real devices and I'm wondering if that is what is happening to some buyers which experience the sparks & fires. I would think the real things would have to be able to 100% prevent that.
Thanks for info.

W∴ Balboos, GHB29-Jul-20 3:02

W∴ Balboos, GHB

29-Jul-20 3:02

OriginalGriff wrote:
avoid the Chinese ones

Surprise !

Recharge Your Memory[^]

Ravings en masse^
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

OriginalGriff28-Jul-20 2:47

OriginalGriff

28-Jul-20 2:47

Oh, before I forget - check the power supply on your computer: some of them do not like "chopped" square wave, and may insist on a "proper" sine wave input. Some UPS's will give that, some won't.

raddevus28-Jul-20 3:15

28-Jul-20 3:15

OriginalGriff wrote:
check the power supply on your computer:

Thanks for info. That's why I was looking at the CyberPower ones.
In my case I'm really wanting to power up the wifi router and cable modem so I'm guessing that since they have external power supplies even the square wave ones would probably work?? Not sure though.
Thanks

pkfox28-Jul-20 8:08

pkfox

28-Jul-20 8:08

Hi Paul if you ever get around to buying another UPS give me a shout and tell me what you've decided on - I use a SBC as a jenkins and local nuget server for my home and shared projects and it's on 24/7 , I know it's not on the same scale as powering a server but the dear litle box is very useful and a PITA to rebuild ( despite my having an image of the base build )

"We can't stop here - this is bat country" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP

obermd28-Jul-20 3:24

obermd

28-Jul-20 3:24

The only problem I've ever had with a UPS other than old batteries was when UPS bashed a brand new APC unit so badly they bent the sheet metal casing.

That said, yes, there have been a small number of reports of fires out of millions made.

raddevus28-Jul-20 3:27

28-Jul-20 3:27

Thanks for the info. From the reviews it made it seem like they happened quite often. But I understand reviewers often have bad setups, incorrect wiring in their homes, etc. Just wanted to get a feel for what other people experienced.

User 1106097928-Jul-20 4:09

User 11060979

28-Jul-20 4:09

Hosting them in the chimney, should be a safe place Laugh | :laugh:

It does not solve my Problem, but it answers my question
Chemists have exactly one rule: there are only exceptions

modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.

raddevus28-Jul-20 9:21

28-Jul-20 9:21

0x01AA wrote:
Hosting them in the chimney, should be a safe place

That's really funny and actually indicates smart thinking. I really like that idea, because it shows vertical thinking. Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

David Crow28-Jul-20 6:31

David Crow

28-Jul-20 6:31

raddevus wrote:

What is your experience with this? Are these things safe?

I've never experienced any such thing in all the years I've had a UPS. All electronics have the potential to be dangerous. That's just the nature of the game.

"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson

"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons

"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles

raddevus28-Jul-20 9:24

28-Jul-20 9:24

David Crow wrote:
I've never experienced any such thing in all the years I've had a UPS.

Very good to know.

David Crow wrote:
All electronics have the potential to be dangerous.

I agree. It was just that there were quite a few reviewers mentioning sparks and fires so I wanted to get another random sampling of intelligent users...and even though I wanted intelligent users, I came here to CP. Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

Of course, I am kidding. CP Lounge is really full of a lot of great people with vast years of experience.
Thanks for the info.