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For sure 
"Five fruits and vegetables a day? What a joke!
Personally, after the third watermelon, I'm full."
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:evil_grinse:
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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apparently cats have been found with it
your pet:
- lock down ?
- or lock out ?
@OriginalGriff - just thikin ... ya know that nice box you made for your 3D printer.... would be purrfect!
1. open, 2. remove printer, 3. insert cat, 4. close
...squeeze food in through fan grille, convince the cat to likewise squeeze it's poo back out [another?] grille (don't forget: drill holes in bottom for pee drain)
pestilence [ pes-tl-uh ns ] noun
1. a deadly or virulent epidemic disease. especially bubonic plague.
2. something that is considered harmful, destructive, or evil.
Synonyms: pest, plague, CCP
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Works for the missus as well... 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
Mark Twain
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I hope our neighbours don't hear about this, they are real cat haters that even put spikes on their fence 
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I was scratching my head on this as well. There's an article that said a tiger at a zoo in USA got it from it's handler. Now there are cats and a dog (in China) that's been found positive with it, but the experts say that our pets (which are animals) can't transfer it to us.
Now, I don't understand how we got it from an animal then in the first place.
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apparently a couple of house cats in NY were found to have it,
- one was "slightly" symptomatic (breathing congestion),
- one was asymptomatic (not enough test kits for humans - WTF was this cat tested ??? $$$)
Dylvh wrote: Now, I don't understand how we got it from an animal then in the first place.
one getting-more-popular (France, USA) rumor suggests a scientist blended a bat-sars protein (that didn't infect humans but is deadly) with the SARS virus that does infect humans - and yes... then it escaped. -I can't (wont waste my time to try to) prove it nor claim if true or not. ... if you care Google is your friend (in most countries)
pestilence [ pes-tl-uh ns ] noun
1. a deadly or virulent epidemic disease. especially bubonic plague.
2. something that is considered harmful, destructive, or evil.
Synonyms: pest, plague, CCP
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lopatir wrote: I can't (wont waste my time to try to) prove it nor claim if true or not.
Agreed. The media just doesn't always make sense to me.
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No surprise here - cats are evil.
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This has me kind of worried...
People buy kittens and puppies and then dump them when they're not "cute" anymore.
People bought dalmatians after the 100 Dalmatians movie and then dumped them when they weren't as nice as a f***ing cartoon.
Same with fish and turtles after Finding Nemo.
Some people are scum who think animals are there for their enjoyment and can be disposed of whenever.
People are burning 5G towers because they think it transmits COVID-19.
This news could lead to massive animal suffering 
Personally, I'd have to be close to death to give up my feline friend and then I'd make sure she'd be with good people and I could have her back later.
Here's a super cute baby asking everyone not to hurt their pets[^] 
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Sander Rossel wrote: Personally, I'd have to be close to death to give up my feline friend
Sander Rossel wrote: and then I'd make sure she'd be with good people and I could have her back later.
AFTER death, you mean? 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
-
Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
Mark Twain
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You're dark (I like that).
But I meant after I'm healed 
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Sander Rossel wrote: Some people are scum who think animals are there for their enjoyment and can be disposed of whenever.
"Animals" is a large word here; lots of animals are food, not entertainment. Some animals are pests, or parasites. Not each animal should have "pet" status; gutworms and undomesticated rats come to mind.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: lots of animals are food
As a vegetarian I'd like to disagree 
The animals you eat are especially social and intelligent.
And they're treated so horrible that lots of people wouldn't eat meat for a while if they saw it with their own eyes.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Some animals are pests, or parasites
Unfortunately, that's true 
I have ants in my house now.
Normally I'd love ants, like when I spot them in a forest, but NOT in my house.
I feel bad for every ant I kill though 
You say "undomesticated" rats, but the fact that we can domesticate them should be an indication of their intelligence.
I wouldn't want to kill an undomesticated rat, but I also wouldn't want them in my house, obviously.
The rat just lives its life and it can't really help it is what it is, it's certainly not out to hurt me.
I'd try a non-violent approach if possible.
Not so much for flies, death to all!
I wasn't always like that, but I once had a fly plague.
Killed 5+ flies every time I entered my bedroom, sometimes even 10+, and I still don't know where they came from
That was when I still lived with my parents.
Once I moved out they never saw a fly again (and no, I didn't live dirty or anything) 
Anyway, I wasn't talking about pets specifically.
People kill and mistreat all manner of animals just because they don't like animals or an animal living somewhere is inconvenient.
Or because we want a fur coat or because some people somewhere believe elephant teeth and rhino horns can cure erectile dysfunction 
Bullfighting, foie gras, hunting, fishing, cockfights...
If everyone treated animals with some respect we wouldn't have COVID-19 either, just saying...
So yeah, animals.
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Sander Rossel wrote: As a vegetarian I'd like to disagree
Feel free to; fact remains we are omnivores and need vitamin B12.
Sander Rossel wrote: The animals you eat are especially social and intelligent.
That doesn't entitle them to anything. The mouse that Goedzo caught in the garden and dropped under my bed may be intelligent, but that doesn't stop me from killing the critter (and throwing it away, not eating the meat).
Sander Rossel wrote: the fact that we can domesticate them should be an indication of their intelligence.
No, it's not. Go ahead and prove me wrong, train a chicken to do something "intelligent".
Sander Rossel wrote: I'd try a non-violent approach if possible.
You do realize this world is built on violence? Even before the invention of mankind? Evolution is based on a struggle.
Sander Rossel wrote: If everyone treated animals with some respect we wouldn't have COVID-19 either, just saying...
That's utter nonsense.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Feel free to; fact remains we are omnivores and need vitamin B12.
Which can be had from other sources as well.
We still don't need the amount we consume today.
And we sure as hell don't need to torture those animals for it.
Fact remains, animals are NOT "made out of food."
Eddy Vluggen wrote: That doesn't entitle them to anything.
The only thing keeping me from killing you is some made up law (well, that and I don't actually want to kill you).
By that logic, none of us is entitled to anything.
Just saying, just because you can doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
If we make up some law that we may not kill mice, and such laws exist for other animals, then the mouse is as entitled as we are.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: train a chicken to do something "intelligent".
First, define intelligence.
We can't.
Here's a clever chicken though: Clever Chicken Plays Operatic Aria on Keyboard - YouTube[^]
Chickens are very nice and social creatures by the way.
They want to sit on your lap and everything.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: You do realize this world is built on violence? Even before the invention of mankind? Evolution is based on a struggle.
Is that an invitation to beat the crap out of you?
Or an excuse to beat the crap out of whoever you like?
No it's not, so what's your point?
Eddy Vluggen wrote: That's utter nonsense.
Well, it does come from an animal we weren't some Chinese wasn't supposed to eat.
Oh by the way, they eat cats and dogs because cats and dogs aren't entitled to anything.
Cruelty towards cats and dogs is forbidden in the Netherlands because they're slightly more entitled over here.
Fun experiment, they once personalized a cow, gave it a name and everything.
It was on TV and people loved it.
Then it had to be slaughtered because it was meant for consumption.
People protested against the slaughter of that particular cow, but no doubt ate another cow that same evening.
What does that tell you about people? 
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If you in a bad mood, only read the end. If you in a discussing mood, read the entire thing.
Sander Rossel wrote: Which can be had from other sources as well.
We still don't need the amount we consume today.
And we sure as hell don't need to torture those animals for it.
Fact remains, animals are NOT "made out of food."
Can nowadays be had from other sources, yes. To illustrate my point, how is your weight doing? And yes, plants and animals are food, always has been like that in nature. Your cat does not share your morals, it will simply ignore lettuce.
Sander Rossel wrote: The only thing keeping me from killing you is some made up law (well, that and I don't actually want to kill you).
A law we invented because it makes living together as a society a bit easier. That has never been extended to animals; that's why one is called murder, and the other is simply slaughter (and taxed).
Sander Rossel wrote: By that logic, none of us is entitled to anything.
Just saying, just because you can doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
In nature, there is no "right thing". There's only survivors. How come you think you have more entitlements than the Covid-virus? Did you not simply take those rights? What granted those rights to you, and not to gutworms?
Sander Rossel wrote: First, define intelligence.
We can't.
We can and did. We even standardized its testing, and some animals do the same tests (and succeed).
Sander Rossel wrote: Chickens are very nice and social creatures by the way.
They want to sit on your lap and everything.
You mean those in the "kinderboerderij"? The ones whos beak and claws is cut? An undamaged rooster is a dangerous animal.
Sander Rossel wrote: Is that an invitation to beat the crap out of you?
Or an excuse to beat the crap out of whoever you like?
No it's not, so what's your point?
Point is that laws and moral have no place in nature, and animals have no God-given rights. We have those because it makes living together easier, but it doesn't mean that violence does not exist in our species anymore - nor that evolution has been halted. People still try to get ahead of the competition. That's also why countries don't work together, even in the EU - we are competing for resources.
Sander Rossel wrote: Well, it does come from an animal we weren't some Chinese wasn't supposed to eat.
Others claim it came from a lab; there's no proof for your statement, and anything that can be eaten, will be. There's no list of animals that "should not be eaten". Anything that walks, crawls, flies, or swims is food.
Sander Rossel wrote: Oh by the way, they eat cats and dogs because cats and dogs aren't entitled to anything.
So what? Since when are they "entitled"? In other places they eat cavia's (which should be eaten like chicken, with your hands).
Sander Rossel wrote: Fun experiment, they once personalized a cow, gave it a name and everything.
[...]
What does that tell you about people?
A generation ago, that "fun experiment" was done each Christmas. That's why kids were taught not to play with their food - it creates an attachment to your Flappie. Done right, that Flappie has a good life, lives protected (meaning, no struggle for survival, no bad weather, no predators, just growing fat comfortably) with limited suffering when harvested.
And one culture's pet, is a plague in other countries - see the rabbit in Australia. Those furry rats have no entitlements. They do not differ from other rodents, except in taste.
The line you draw is a cultural one and ours is just one of many. It's not superiour and it will be replaced in time by a more succesfull version.
Not intended to change your mind about being vegetarian; I agree with you that we eat too much meat, often without knowing where it came from. I'll also agree that a good tasty meal does not require meat to be present. What man doesn't want to hear is that all animals are equal (rats, dogs, gutworms, humans). All struggle for survival, and where they need not, they multiply until they become a burden to the local ecosystem, even to the point of endangering it (and their own survival). The thing that sets us apart from the rabbits in Australia is that we can actually think about the problem and the limits of the ecosystem.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: All struggle for survival, and where they need not, they multiply until they become a burden to the local ecosystem, even to the point of endangering it (and their own survival). The thing that sets us apart from the rabbits in Australia is that we can actually think about the problem and the limits of the ecosystem.
Yes, but looking at the news... we still act like if we couldn't
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Looking at the news; the US can't say openly they are competing with China, Russia or Iran, but behind the curtains there has been an economic war going for years.
The thing that mystifies me is how US students think they will improve the world by inventing 60+ genders. I blame the idea that you can be "anything you want".
You can't.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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I said nothing about US...
I was meaning about the equilibrium with the ecosystem and its actual lack of it considering the human race.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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TL;DR BE KIND TO ANIMALS!
Eddy Vluggen wrote: If you in a bad mood
I'm not
Eddy Vluggen wrote: To illustrate my point, how is your weight doing?
Not so good, gained another kg
I don't know how that illustrates your point though.
Vegetarians can be as unhealthy and overweight as meat eaters
Eddy Vluggen wrote: it will simply ignore lettuce
Because she doesn't know any better, I do.
I don't need meat and it's not so good that I'd be willing to cruelly sacrifice animals for it.
It's the production process I'm opposed to, not so much the eating.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: That has never been extended to animals; that's why one is called murder, and the other is simply slaughter (and taxed).
It has been extended to animals, animal cruelty is forbidden.
Anyway, "entitlement" is a cultural construct, so by natural laws you're no more entitled than the mouse you killed.
Except you're big and strong and the mouse isn't.
You could've used that big and strong body and those smart brains to find a way to get the mouse back in the field where it belongs, but unfortunately for the mouse you decided to kill it instead.
If everyone did what you do, we'd be out of animals real soon (and die because a lot of animals, mostly insects, are necessary for life to flourish).
Eddy Vluggen wrote: We can and did. We even standardized its testing, and some animals do the same tests (and succeed).
No we can't and no we didn't.
We invented some test that tests some things we find important.
Math and language, typical stuff that computers can ace, but you wouldn't call a computer intelligent.
A jungle tribe wouldn't even know what the test was, but they survive in the jungle, something we are to "stupid" for.
In earlier times such tests would've looked very different as well.
So even if that test measures any form of intelligence is very much place and time bound.
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." - Unknown (not Einstein as is often believed)
Eddy Vluggen wrote: An undamaged rooster is a dangerous animal.
Yes it is, that's why I said chickens.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Point is that laws and moral have no place in nature, and animals have no God-given rights.
And we're nothing but mammals, so basically we have the same rights as that mouse.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: see the rabbit in Australia.
Which people brought over.
Lots of pests we have are self-inflicted either by introducing a non-native species, by destroying natural habitats or by killing a natural enemy 
And here you are saying these poor bunnies that didn't even want to be there are an evil pest
Eddy Vluggen wrote: The line you draw is a cultural one and ours is just one of many
That's just my point, mine is NOT cultural.
I just try to respect other animals as I would like to be respected.
It's not always easy or possible, I too have some basic survival instinct, that's why I'm now killing the ants in my house, but I wouldn't kill a single mouse just for being there.
And to be fair, if hundreds of people came into my house and started stealing me food, like the ants try, I'd start killing them too
Eddy Vluggen wrote: What man doesn't want to hear is that all animals are equal
So why did you kill the mouse and not your neighbor?
You say it, but try to act like it a bit more
For clarity, by letting that mouse live, not by killing your neighbor
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Sander Rossel wrote: Not so good, gained another kg
I don't know how that illustrates your point though.
Vegetarians can be as unhealthy and overweight as meat eaters
I tought you were underweight?
Sander Rossel wrote: It's the production process I'm opposed to, not so much the eating.
I'd have to agree there.
Sander Rossel wrote: Math and language, typical stuff that computers can ace, but you wouldn't call a computer intelligent.
It tests more than math and language, and it only applies to living creatures. There's also no computer yet that will succeed at the test, since it is more than just a measurement of vocabulary and math. Try writing an application that does the part of the test called "ruimtelijk inzicht", where the computer has to choose from four pictures, pointing out the one that can be folded into the result.
Sander Rossel wrote: A jungle tribe wouldn't even know what the test was, but they survive in the jungle, something we are to "stupid" for.
That's not intelligence, but knowledge, and no, that knowledge is not lost in North Europe.
Sander Rossel wrote: So why did you kill the mouse and not your neighbor?
Because of the social contract that our society has, and because the cat hunts mice, not neighbours.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Sander Rossel wrote: Oh by the way, they eat cats and dogs because cats and dogs aren't entitled to anything.
And in spain we eat rabbits and mussels, and in france frogs and snails... so what?
Only because cats and dogs are home pets here, doesn't mean they can't be eaten.
Pork is forbidden in muslims countries and cow/beef is forbidden in india...
All that are cultural laws, not natural laws. In the nature everything is potential food for any other life form, soon or later.
Sander Rossel wrote: Cruelty towards cats and dogs is forbidden in the Netherlands because they're slightly more entitled over here.
Eat them doesn't necessarily mean cruelty. Cruelty for the sick of it should be forbidden everywhere and with everything.
Sander Rossel wrote: Fun experiment, they once personalized a cow, gave it a name and everything.
It was on TV and people loved it.
Then it had to be slaughtered because it was meant for consumption.
People protested against the slaughter of that particular cow, but no doubt ate another cow that same evening.
What does that tell you about people?
That they usually have full stomach. If they were enough hungry and then that cow was put in the same room... the experiment would have ended in a different way.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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