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OriginalGriff wrote: but he lost his sense of smell and taste about a year ago
That's a long time to have CV-19 symptoms! 
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There once was a Florida man
who hoped toilet paper get he can
so he went to the store
and found they had more
than the needs of his whole clan!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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reminds me of the pic floating around on the internet of a man in the check-out line at a CostCo type store with whole pallet of TP. 
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Not "the check-out line at CostCo", but this'll do...
I'd say this guy is full of sh*t.
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I know, right!? I saw that pic too, a while back. Words escape me for people that act that way.
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From:
The Constipation Digest
James Colonic, Assistant Editor
333 Blockage Dr.
Log Jam, NY 55501
Dear Cp-Coder:
We are not currently accepting submissions.
However, I must mention that your excellent poem on
toilet paper stirred something deep within me. As
I ruminated on the piece, I felt an urgency to
publish it. It really moved me. Unfortunately, my
managing editor would not discharge the item to
publication. No amount of persuasion could loosen him
on this issue.
Sincerely,
James Colonic
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For some reason that reminds me of a story I heard about Beethoven. He had been sent a composition and asked to comment on it. His reply wen something like "Sir, I am in the smallest room in the house, and have your composition in front of me. Shortly, it will be behind me"
Keep Calm and Carry On
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Proposed government coronavirus tracking app falls at the first hurdle due to data breach | ZDNet[^]
Just publish the source code with personal data from ANOTHER APP!? 
"Amateurish" doesn't even begin to describe it...
"A spokesperson for the Covid19 Alert app said the information was "accidentally put online" due to the haste in which the team wanted to make the source code available for analysis."
If they have so much haste I'm sure this isn't the only "accident" that they put in the code.
Again, I'm NOT going to use any COVID-19 app ever.
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Sander Rossel wrote: Again, I'm NOT going to use any COVID-19 app ever.
You are not alone.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Didn't see that coming.
Said no-one ever.
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I didn't see this reply coming 
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My guess is the govt will do it seamlessly if you choose to not install the app. Truth is that the Big Data players already have all the tracking data that anyone could ever want, Covid-19 tracking app or not.
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This.
I've been called paranoid before. I'm not. Nobody has a single database that contains everything about everyone.
But start cross-referencing however and the picture being painted can present a whole different story.
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So before we all jump on the "it's never going to work it's impossible not on my watch over my dead body" bandwagon, can we step back and be software developers?
- There's a serious issue and we, as developers, can help.
- There are serious privacy considerations. We, as developers, can help.
So let's start with the lowest common denominator here ("We, as developers, can help") and workshop some ideas
I think Google / Apple have discussed this one but I haven't had a chance to read up on it. It seems to be along the following lines:
- You install an app and give it access to your bluetooth. The app generates a GUID as an ID and stores that on the device. And only on the device.
- It constantly scans it's surroundings for other IDs via bluetooth that are being transmitted by the apps on other people's phones. It records all IDs that you're next to for more than 15 mins
- When someone is diagnosed with COVID the health care worker requests their app ID. They don't ask for your name, your email, or anything. Just the ID you were broadcasting.
- A central server sends out a push notification with that ID. If someone else's app has that ID in their "person I've been near for 15 mins" list they get the big red scary screen of self isolation.
That's it. Start to end. You can delete the app. You can wipe any trace of the ID from your phone. The ID was never associated with you in any way. There is NO GPS logging.
Anyone see any holes in this?
cheers
Chris Maunder
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I often have my bluetooth off. So do many people I know. So GPS tracking seems more reliable. Still, "the app" can do the tracking on your device alone.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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I really don't like babies, so your subject is poorly chosen on me 
Seriously though, the idea sounds alright when done right.
And it's that last part I worry about.
We've seen it time and time again.
And here it is again, an app that's not supposed to track users leaked personal data before it even went into production.
So there's the hole, the incompetence of people.
xkcd explains it quite well[^] 
I've laid out my (mostly) non-technical arguments about such apps in this Lounge post[^].
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a) That XKCD is so awesome.
b) Yep. They can and do track us already.
The only problem is, even though we've allowed them to do it because it's convenient to us, we're not going to let the data be used to open up our lives because we don't want to admit it openly.
Deep down we all just want our cake and we want to eat it too.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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A long time ago,
in a business far, far away...
I worked for a company that made ballot-counting equipment and software during the MS-DOS and "hanging chad" era. The idea of applying blockchain to that domain is... ![Elephant | [mastadon]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/elephant.gif) ing hilarious. Go ahead, kids. Daddy's going to sit back and watch the world burn.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Chris Maunder wrote: The only problem is, even though we've allowed them to do it because it's convenient to us, we're not going to let the data be used to open up our lives because we don't want to admit it openly.
I think that's because the tracking products we use now (Apple, Microsoft, Google and Facebook mostly I guess) started out pretty innocent.
The tracking aspect was added later or we only later found out it was tracking us.
By that time, the technology became a part of our lives and routines and at that point it's hard to switch.
There isn't even a decent alternative for some services, like Windows which I really need for my job (and which I'll always prefer over Apple, Linux is too technical for most users).
Or a smartphone which I now can't do without and I only have two options, being tracked by Google or being tracked by Apple (and I choose Google every time).
Now this new corona app is created for the sole purpose of tracking us and we aren't using it yet.
I think that's just a step too far for most people.
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Sander Rossel wrote: Now this new corona app is created for the sole purpose of tracking us and we aren't using it yet.
I think that's just a step too far for most people.
Exactly, and that's why in Germany they are thinking on making it mandatory 
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Johnny YYZ wrote: Do they also plan on handing smartphones out to everyone who doesn't have one?
No
That's exactly the idiotic aspect of it. A magazine even reported about including it as "system update" so it can be forced. But as we already said... it brings nothing, if not 100% used (and even then, it is pretty useless).
But I suppose, people will complain A LOT about it. And hope the "common sense" starts getting present in some debates, because right now... some arguments they are using in several topics are a bit bizarre.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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How are they ever going to enforce it?
And what if you don't own a phone or one that doesn't run Android or iOS?
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Sander Rossel wrote: How are they ever going to enforce it?
there were comments about integrating it in the system.
If that is true, I suppose Google / Apple would have no objections at all for having an official excuse to integrate such a tracking tool that can be derivated to other purposes easily enough.
Sander Rossel wrote:
And what if you don't own a phone or one that doesn't run Android or iOS?
That's something people is trying to make them see... it brings nothing if such an app is not 100% extended and used... and even then is not that useful, as many other already pointed out in this thread.
For the ones that can read german: Kontakt-Tracing vs. Corona: Aderlass beim Pilotprojekt PEPP-PT geht weiter | heise online[^]
It is supposed to be talked about "security" and "privacy" but seeing some of the political comments...
- Die Grünen setzten sich weiter für die Anonymisierung und den Verbleib der Daten bei den Usern sowie eine gesetzliche Regel ein, die Nachteile für Nicht-Nutzer "und einen Zugriff auf die Daten durch Dritte ausschließt".
- The green force remark their position about anonymizing the data, that the data stay by the users-devices and that there must be a law to exclude disadvantages for the Non-Users and the access to that data by third parties
- "Disadvantages for the non users" >>> WTF? Really? what kind of disadvantages?
- "Keeping the data in users devices" >>> In principle not a bad idea, but the data amount needed for this to work... you can forget it. It is going to bloat the capacity of the majority of the devices
- "A law to avoid access to the data by third parties" >>> I thought there were already laws about it, and FB is breaking all of them with very little consequences...
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Chris Maunder wrote: b) Yep. They can and do track us already.
I'm one of the easiest to track. I still use my Windows Phone. It's like Al Bundy's 1 million miles Dodge... They don't need any ID for me!
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