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And, here I just thought it was about craft that exists inside of work that so many often ignore. 
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yeah, I'm just not a book person
- at least not for books that tell me what I [think I  ] already know.
but others do enjoy it, each to their own.
or maybe just wanted to get a daily rant out, no excuse really but semi-crap day today .... peace bro!
pestilence [ pes-tl-uh ns ] noun
1. a deadly or virulent epidemic disease. especially bubonic plague.
2. something that is considered harmful, destructive, or evil.
Synonyms: pest, plague, people
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I may pick up that book, and I might find a lot that I agree with. I am of that generation.
In a chat yesterday with a co-worker, I repeated one of my mantras that certainly is related to this thread: You should always strive to fully understand what is going on at least one layer below the one you interface to. He nodded: A far too high fraction of younger, newly educated guys are satisfied something that works, automagically, without the faintest clue of how it is done, not even immediately below the API surface.
But then...
In my days as a student, we learned about e.g. disk scheduling algorithms - FCFS, SSTF, elevator... - but in my first summer job as an intern, forty years ago, I learned that a computer system who had more than one pending disk transfer more than 5% of the time was severy overloaded. All this fancy disk queue sorting algorithms was 95+% of the time "sorting" an empty or 1-element list. We also learned about how to compose a good job mix - putting I/O intensive jobs together with CPU intensive ones to obtain as close to 100% utilization of each class of resources (in the Job Control Language you could give indicators of expected load on various resources). Time sharing, interactive terminals and such was a new thing, not yet mainstream.
Some knowledge gets outdated. Noone need to know disk scheduling, sectors, tracks and platters on a flash disk. Job scheduling is specialist knowledge for those who manage supercomputers. Knowing how to knit together a block of core can be fun at the computer museum, but it should not be treated as essential knowledge.
Some of what we learn in school is of the kind "know what is going on at least one layer down". We learn how 4-stroke and 2-stroke combustion engine work. More than half of the new cars sold in Norway this year will be electric ones. In my days, we learned the chemistry of silver photography. Today, the ordering time for darkroom materials (chemicals, paper) is weeks or months, you no longer have any use for that knowledge.
But you did. Not because you became a car mechanic or photo lab worker (you didn't), but to know how things work. Kids learned to play a keyboard with MIDI interface to become great musicians, but to get a ceratain feeling for how it is to perform music. They did learn to create music, at a certain level. I think that is valuable knowledge, even when it is only useful in family parties.
What attracted me to programming was way you (must) approach a problem: You just have to do it in a systematic and orderly way ... at a certain level. You must do things in the proper order. You must split the task into subtasks that can be solved one by one. I do not think of my first computer experiences as "programming", but as "orderly problem solving". Actually, for a few years I was evangelising programming for everybody not as a way to control a computer, but as a way to learn general problem solving methodologies, applicable in almost any problem area.
When I was teaching elementary programming (at college level), the "problem kids" were the self-taugt C gurus who "knew how to program". The easiest ones were those who had been playing with similar tools/toys, like visual languages. Today, programming an Arduino to make some LEDs flash would be fine - so different from large-scale programming that they don't think they are gurus. Yet, they have learned how to approach a problem in a somewhat systematic way.
I wouldn't turn down Blockly any more than I would turn down the piano playing of my neighbour's nine year old. They both represent the idea of knowing how things work, even if you are not the one who will be doing the real work.
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Very good points and a very interesting post.
Of course the short excerpts don't quite communicate everything the author is talking about.
I think the point is that :
In every realm where you learn there is often much more going on below the surface than you might think. Learn those foundational things and how to think about those things and you'll be stronger at whatever you do.
And for sure the "shortcut" types of things that help someone get introduced to a subject can be very good -- and the real problem may simply be that no one was there who told the person that "learning these things this way is just to stimulate interest, but don't believe you are going to play the Recorder[^] professionally, because there's not a lot of professional Recorder Concerts going on out there."
Of course, someone will post a youtube of the most famous Recorder Player who can play everything from Bach to Bon Jovi and that'll prove that Recorder concerts are going on everywhere. 
I think the computer is a place where a lot of sub-activities are going on and you can be totally unaware and then learning those things can really help you understand things better. But, of course, this takes time and you can't just learn all of the subactivities and if you wait until you understand all of that the student will probably run away.
Good talk. 
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raddevus wrote: lobbying for legislation mandating that everybody learn to code in school.
The time, effort, and money would be better spent if they taught them science - in particular chemistry. Not deep dark chemistry but the chemistry involved in daily life and some enrichment beyond that - so they're not taken for suckers by scammers and politicians who make stuff up.
Why chemistry? Well, physics would also be good - but the current attitude vilifies chemistry and 'chemicals' - product making the preposterous claim they're 'chemical free'. Really - take a look around you and realize how little would be there without chemistry.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Why chemistry? Well, physics would also be good
Yes, teaching them:
1. Critical thinking skills-- when you see something, ask what might be behind that something
2. Foundational things -- Matter is built out of atoms. Atoms have properties. Types of atoms behave particular ways. Some atoms form a gas that could kill you if you breathe it Cl or explode if you put it in water Na. If you mix certain atoms you get a compound and this compound may be safer (NaCl) or may burn a hole through you (HCl).
I like that the author is attempting to draw readers into the foundational things.
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used to be physics held things together and chemistry made it pretty
then chemistry invented explosions (often still pretty though).
[not to be outdone] physics made even bigger explosions (big enough that observers didn't notice what color it was).
biology: messing with diversity, genetic alteration, cloning...
computers: fraud, identity theft, fake news...
economics: rob the poor, overfeed the rich, money laundering...
...
science is dangerous and evil! ban it all!
lets just teach kids to be nice politically correct and other stupid fluff
for everything else there's google.
pestilence [ pes-tl-uh ns ] noun
1. a deadly or virulent epidemic disease. especially bubonic plague.
2. something that is considered harmful, destructive, or evil.
Synonyms: pest, plague, people
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lopatir wrote: lets just teach kids to be nice politically correct and other stupid fluff
Odd that you'd pick that - as I recall, the bible-pounders have been trying to ban (or more recently, corrupt) science.
Political Correctness (usually considered left-wing) can induce nausea - religious fervor (usually considered right-wing) is outright dangerous.
New rule for everyone: when you want to point out the flaws in "Them", do so while pointing into a mirror.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Political Correctness (usually considered left-wing) can induce nausea - religious fervor (usually considered right-wing) is outright dangerous.
and thus a new battlefront was created!
would say more but got a mote stuck in my eye 
pestilence [ pes-tl-uh ns ] noun
1. a deadly or virulent epidemic disease. especially bubonic plague.
2. something that is considered harmful, destructive, or evil.
Synonyms: pest, plague, people
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Yes, but you are commenting on something which is a subset of a major problem. The same issue applies to politics, business, in fact most human endeavours. We lose sight of the essence of what we do.
Gilbran - "your work is your love made real". Modern society values the result, not the product. Will I ever again be moved by the realisation of some perfection in computer software? I doubt it. Will I again be moved when I listen to the Moonlight Sonata? Without doubt.
Sic gloria transit mundi.
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Quote: the best way to prevent infection is to avoid being exposed to the virus
Well, f***ing duh!
Thank you for your great contribution to the well-being of your fellow man. Now f*** off back to kindergarten.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: the best way to prevent infection is to avoid being exposed to the virus
With all of the unwarranted hysteria around this thing, it's not that bad for someone to show some common sense. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Mark_Wallace wrote: ... avoid being exposed to the virus
always wear a hat!
pestilence [ pes-tl-uh ns ] noun
1. a deadly or virulent epidemic disease. especially bubonic plague.
2. something that is considered harmful, destructive, or evil.
Synonyms: pest, plague, people
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lopatir wrote: always wear a hat!
So it's not as bad as HIV.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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A hat of the proper kind is quite valuable against HIV.
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I am the same, this kind of stupidity really annoys me.
However, I also understand that these kind of statements are caused because the general public reader is even more stupid. What is common sense to some of us is unfortunately not common sense to the majority.
People will lick toilets then complain when they get ill saying "well, nobody said NOT to lick them". Then next week there will be a sign "DO NOT LICK TOILETS. MAY CAUSE SICKNESS". 
Living on this planet is a daily struggle.
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musefan wrote: However, I also understand that these kind of statements are caused because the general public reader is even more stupid. What is common sense to some of us is unfortunately not common sense to the majority.
We have a regular event at our local Club for which we use a supplier to bring in food and I get the joy of doing the admin.
This week I had a phone call as a gentleman was desperate to change his order of chicken to fish as he considered chicken too high a coronavirus risk.
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I guess the sensible thing to do in that situation is just bite your tongue, agree to process the request, and try and forget the conversation even happened as soon as possible 
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tell him fish has a higher risk of Ross River,
if he chooses beef, JKD (or whatever it's called now)
...
I mean just for the fun of it put him off off all the choices except tofu.
later on when eating remark loudly how "juicy" your [choice of] meat is.
pestilence [ pes-tl-uh ns ] noun
1. a deadly or virulent epidemic disease. especially bubonic plague.
2. something that is considered harmful, destructive, or evil.
Synonyms: pest, plague, people
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lopatir wrote: just for the fun of it put him off off all the choices except tofu.
... Then tell him it's Chinese.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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musefan wrote: What is common sense to some of us is unfortunately not common sense to the majority.
Very true. The posters made in India about the virus feel very obvious but still, it's much needed. Just thinking about the folks in rural areas. They are the majority.
And most importantly think about our Prime Minister and all the politicians. They would be the number #1 consumer for these posters. 
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musefan wrote: People will lick toilets then complain when they get ill saying "well, nobody said NOT to lick them". Then next week there will be a sign "DO NOT LICK TOILETS. MAY CAUSE SICKNESS"
But those of us who have enough sense to have read reports about research into toilet seats know that it's safer to eat our lunch off them than off our desks.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I guess that explains why they make plates out of the same material they make toilets.
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I'll have to remember that one!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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